So Key is standing by Parata...

[Bob Kane]

lol
They say you have to be pretty smart to come up with a simple system.
Tell you what, you supply us with a copy of the teachers employment contract and I'll get out my red crayon and cross out some of the complex stuff and we'll see what it looks like.

[Wayne]

ground hog day it seems

[Learning]

lol
They say you have to be pretty smart to come up with a simple system.
Tell you what, you supply us with a copy of the teachers employment contract and I'll get out my red crayon and cross out some of the complex stuff and we'll see what it looks like.

Here ya go Bob...

http://www.minedu.govt.nz/NZEducation/EducationPolicies/SchoolEmployment/TeachersPrincipals/PrimaryTeachers/CollectiveAgreement.aspx

[Bob Kane]

Thanks.
For starters I'd remove sections 3.13 - 3.34 and Part 5.
That would make things a bit simpler wouldn't it?

[Learning]

I would have to agree with you that a few of those could be simplified or cut. But they either effect all teachers or a select few. Like all union negotiated agreements there are streams of conditions. This effects tens of thousands New Zealanders and probably millions of Australians in thousands of different jobs. It doesn't explain how Novapay can screw up so many teachers pay in so many different ways for so long.

[Wayne]

Before you start cutting bits you would have to understand that teaching isn't a 9-5 occupation and without those allowances it would be hard to get teachers to take on the extra duties (which the allowances do not cover the worth of but are, at least, a start).

[Wayne]

I was thinking about this some more - how hard can it be to have a few tick boxes for the allowances? Surely they are the easy bits.
The hard bits are when a teacher has, say, a permanent relief job say 2 days a week (which is paid at a certain rate and gets leave etc) plus does a bit of casual relief (which is paid at a higher rate including holiday pay).
What would you do about that? Not pay holiday pay?

[Perry]

Or incorporate holiday pay
in the hourly (flat) rate?

[Wayne]

Or incorporate holiday pay
in the hourly (flat) rate?

which is what is done for casual but not legal for part time. Not legal in any industry - if you have a 'roster' you must get seperate holidays.

[speights boy]

Plus the school has been awarded costs.

School merger 'unlawful'

Phillipstown School's bid to stay open has passed its first major hurdle.

A High Court judge today declared the process behind Education Minister Hekia Parata's decision to merge Woolston and Phillipstown schools in Christchurch to be unlawful.

[Bob Kane]

The Novopay software had been plagued with problems since it was rolled out in August 2012. Nearly $20 million has so far been spent trying to fix it.
Talent2, the contractor tasked with implementing the system, drowned in technical difficulties and an increasing backlog of errors, a 2013 study found.
Ms Nowotarski is renewing calls for the Government to fix Novopay once and for all.
"It's a bit of deja vu. It's 12 months down the track and we are looking for a final end to all of this," she says.
"All they need to do is fix it."

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/novopay-problems-arise-again-5825738

Yeah.
All they need to do is fix it.
I wonder why it's taking so long?

[Perry]

Good money after bad comes to mind.

[artemis]

Believe Novopay is largely fixed, and the number of errors in pay periods is now very small. It is a hugely complex system, paying nearly 80,000 people each pay period and it is to be expected that serious or moderate defects will arise from time to time. And hopefully be fixed very quickly.

A lot of stirring has come from the unions who regard Ms Parata as a weak link. Fair enough, but to me Mr Joyce's releases on Novopay progress seem more balanced and he gives numbers rather than rhetoric.

(I know nothing about Novopay except what has been in the press, but I have had a lot of experience with large and critical IT systems. Sh!t happens.)

[Bob Kane]

It is a hugely complex system, paying nearly 80,000 people each pay period and it is to be expected that serious or moderate defects will arise from time to time.

Thank you, artemis.
It sounds like the teachers have devised the most complex payroll system imaginable.
As a result of this, a lot of teachers are having payroll problems.
At some stage they'll give up on their complexity and revert to a standard, simple payroll system.
Let's see how long it takes them to learn this lesson.

[Wayne]

Thank you, artemis.
It sounds like the teachers have devised the most complex payroll system imaginable.
As a result of this, a lot of teachers are having payroll problems.
At some stage they'll give up on their complexity and revert to a standard, simple payroll system.
Let's see how long it takes them to learn this lesson.

You are joking aren't you?