Where is xris?

[Monid]

Quick question- Are posts generally moderated on sight or do they require a complaint first to attract the moderators attention?

Depends on the post. Us moderators are busy folk with other things to do so we may not initially spot an offending post. Even if we do often posts are borderline if this is the case we would usually start a discussion about the post rather than just removing it. If a flagrant breaking of the rules is spotted by a moderator (Abusive language, spam, rule 2.b etc) then the post would probably be removed immediately. Reporting posts helps us both in terms of getting a feeling for what the community thinks but also drawing our attention to posts that need consideration.

Moderation is actually a fairly rare event I doubt it happens more than once a day on average (including the removal of spam) and probably happens a lot less than that.

Thanks David, what about my questions? Who else is currently 'muzzled'?

I'm not comfortable disclosing this because the aim is rehabilitation not pointing a finger at them...

Actually, can I suggest another factor is the willingess of certain parties to report posts and other parties' unwillingness to do so.

Just to back up Perry, this is something that gets taken into consideration when considering whether to moderate if someone reports 20 borderline or non-offensive posts then their reports are likely to not be treated with the same credibility as the reports of others. Often though those reporting posts aren't involved, they are long standing members of PT who get sick of some of the bickering.

I took a position in favour of self-control... and stand by it.

Yeah, you might well be our poster boy for how to be critical but remain within the rules. Others don't seem to be able to exercise the same self-control.

But this blacklisting/probation/gagging feels 'off' to me.

I'm not keen on it myself as a general rule, however if someone keeps posting such that we have to edit or remove each of their posts it becomes the only sensible option. To repeat myself this isn't something we do lightly, there have to be a whole heap of moderated posts before we even consider it.

The goal of the community isn't a quiet life for the mods

Agreed absolutely. But the watchlist doesn't make our life quieter, anything but. While someone is on the watchlist their posts have to be reviewed by a moderator before they can be seen by others. I at least feel that puts an obligation on us moderators to rather promptly find their latest posts and decide if they can be approved or not so that they don't miss out on participating in the discussion.

On that note people might appreciate these two additions to this discussion from Poormastery: http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/sh...01&postcount=4

http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=126995&postcount=29

On his usual fine form

Cheers
David

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Xris = Sledge Hammer??

Inspector Sledge Hammer of the San Francisco Police Department is a violent, sadistic, and insensitive, yet oddly likeable detective. His best friend is a .44 Magnum with a customized grip featuring the drawing of a sledgehammer. Hammer sleeps and showers with his gun and even talks to it. Hammer believes in firing first and asking questions never. His defining moment is in the pilot episode, when he blows up an entire building with a rocket launcher in order to deal with a sniper on the roof.

While purportedly a stickler for law and order, Hammer is rather lax when it comes to following police regulations. He enjoys roughing up suspected criminals, whom he frequently refers to as "brain-dead mutants", "yogurt-sucking creeps", and the like. He is often suspended from duty, and his police file literally requires a wheelbarrow to transport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sledge_Hammer%21

"Trust me, I know what I'm doing."

[muppet]

For heavens sake, people get banned or stood down on other forums.

So what if someone gets stood down on Propertytalk?

The sun still rises in the next morning.

[Marc]

David, how can I say this gently? That's not where the finger would be pointing.

Taking a Robben Island approach to some of the most appreciated posters on PropertyTalk -- gagging them -- makes PT look bad, in my opinion.

Let me say: I know it's easy to heckle the ref from the sidelines. I know you guys have, as you said, taken this step as a last resort, in your minds. But still, it's so extreme and you seem to be doing more and more of it (true?) ... it feels like something that would happen over at Richmastery's thought policeman's ball.

Hello Peter,

It is my understanding and I could be wrong is that Xris constantly attacked and abused a fellow forum member (and was warned a few times to stop).

I am surprised that some of you think thats okay...

Cheers

Marc

[Monid]

But still, it's so extreme and you seem to be doing more and more of it (true?)

Not true, been about the same number (fluctuating between 0-3 since I began as a moderator). It isn't usually a permanent measure so the number changes.

In any case of course with more users ought to come more users breaking the rules, right? So given the growth of PT over the last few years it would be hardly surprising if these things increased.

Cheers
David

[tricky]

Dear PT,

Xris was one of the few interesting posters left on PT, so poormastery would surmise that the owners of PT.com probably banned him.
Regards,
*poormastery*

Nice to hear from you again, poormastery.
Keep posting.

[poormastery]

An offer

Hi tricky,

Thank you for the kind words. I will be back in NZ over Christmas, and it would be nice to meet up with you again.

Hi Monid,

You well know that Commercial Dan (now cleared for his recent bad behaviour or "rehabilitation"), weasel driver, xris and myself were censored for anti-RM comments.

Why pretend otherwise? If you can't even be honest with yourself, this could be a problem? Why make yourself appear silly, for no good reason? It doesn't make any sense...

Irrespectively, my offer made above in my last posting was made in good faith and with fair intentions.

It is arguably obvious to many that the rough and tumble of the property forum business is not suited to all personality types. This is particularly the case given one industry leaders' attitude to criticism.

I will reiterate my offer again, once more for the record, to make myself clear.

If the owners of PT decide to sell up, and want a new owner who is independent, poormastery would be willing to participate in the bidding process. The fact that this business doesn't make much money doesn't deter me - after all, we all live just once. It is important to me to give something back to society. Spruikers must be confronted and eliminated.


Think about it.

Regards,
*poormastery*

[Perry]

Peter

Your recent comments surprise me. Accepting
your own comments about self-discipline . . .

Some PM posters can't seem to grasp that
it's how it's said, not what is said - when
what is said is not a breach of the rules,
or defamatory.

There is no Moderator censure of fair opinion
and comment, nor those who do such. People
can be as direct and forthright as they want.
They can adduce facts and fair comment/opinion,
as well, so long as appropriate levels of decorum
and propriety are maintained - normal corollaries
to what's in bold, above.

Is the PT Forum like a road?
Walk, ride a bike, drive a tank or a truck. All
are OK so long as the safety rules for all are
observed.

[PeterEmpowerEd]

A few last thoughts - amended

Good afternoon.
Thank you for your responses to my concerns about this.
.... Reading between the lines, it appears my original list:
* poormastery
* weasel driver
* xris
is more or less complete... which speaks volumes to me, as a reasonably long-term member of the PT community (and I'm sure it does so to other observers of the at times heavily censored and dismembered Richmastery thread - 168,000 views as I write this).
See comment

I see no value in entering into anything resembling a trenchant debate about this with the friendly mods (blessings be upon them) and even less so with the owner Marc.

Bottom line, I agree with captaincrab (the whole post is worth reading):

PT is privately owned and has rules. Dont like them?, then you can always go elsewhere. Or even start your own blog. Its a fine line between vigorous discussion and personal abuse.

That said, I feel sad to think that PT may have been intimidated by threats and worn down by perpetual complainants [warning: content requires a strong stomach and a stronger sense of irony] (some of whom operate their own spittle-flecked blogs completely untrammelled by decorum and propriety).
....
Posters like xris and poormastery are not the true menace to PropertyTalk.
They are luminaries who add so much to this community... living treasures, almost. (Do I gush? So be it.)
Comment: OK, there's another side to this ... see my later post.

I repeat: blacklisting them in this way feels very 'off' to me.
You are entitled to disagree, naturally.

- Peter

In closing, let me add a second episode to poormastery's parable.

Added: there are times when posting openly in my own name as I do can have a backlash. Sometimes I itch for an anonymous log in but if I pay the price for being upfront and not a cardboard cutout, well, so be it.
'Keeping it real' as Randy Jackson says on American Idol.
Please feel free to send me any feedback or relevant info by private message, or call me at work. Regards, P

[drelly]

Wow, I've always thought Xris was quite tame in what he was actually saying - if at times, abrupt. I'm not into verbal slanging matches either but the "big brother" approach is a pretty lame way of dealing with it imho. We're not playing "patty-cake" here. If someone doesn't like what another is saying, they have the ability to stand up and defend themselves. Often these drawn-out spats are the result of someone asking a reasonable question and the other party refusing to offer a reasonable answer because they have been caught-out talking bollocks. Perhaps a mod can step in and enforce rules or clarify issues during this vigorous debate before it descends into personal attacks?

[halfempty]

Thanks so very much for offering me your permission to disagree with you, I'm so flattered.

And yet I still feel this is a rather obvious case of professional envy.

Isn't Empower in the same industry as Richmastery?

If fact arn't Richmastery your biggest competition in the market place for your services?

But you would never let that have any effect on your decision to continually beat up on RM or anyone who works with them.

And of course this has had no impact on your never ending defence of those who also choose to throw rocks at RM.

It's all just sounding a bit like a broken record to me.

[spurner]

So the question is, Dear moderators,

How long before you unmuzzle xris?!

I feel he's more likely to contribute to the site if he isn't blacklisted/gagged in any way.

Cheers,

[Aston]

Hello Peter,

It is my understanding and I could be wrong is that Xris constantly attacked and abused a fellow forum member (and was warned a few times to stop).

I am surprised that some of you think thats okay...

Cheers

Marc

Be consistent.

There are others on this forum who also "attack and abuse" other forum members and continue to so so.

And Monid has the audacity to say xris hasn't been banned... what a joke.

Pathetic!

[Marc]

Hello Aston,

We you like to be a Pt mod?

This is what we offer you:

1) You work for free

2) You need to moderate every day for at least an hour - normally 2

3) You need to take abuse and have forum members judge you without them having a clue what it takes to moderate.

4) You get high profile people and trouble makers constantly attacking you because something is going on in the forum that is hurting their business or their business profile is not promoted enough - and thats not RM I am talking about.

So Aston - how about it? Can you do a better job than the current mods?

Cheers

Marc

[Keys]

Perhaps a mod can step in and enforce rules or clarify issues during this vigorous debate before it descends into personal attacks?

I think it's outrageous that you think I would personally attack you drelly!

I would send someone to do it for me!