Speculation & Gold

[watchful]

A couple of weeks ago I posted warning of the possibility that the IMF may be given permission to sell gold. I now understand thatthis has happened the IMF has been given permission to sell some of its gold reserves ( I had been hearing this through contacts in a number of international organizations here in Vienna over the last four weeks). When the IMf starts to sell the price is going to go down.

SteveNetWriter. Not sure if you are still filtering Austro's posts but if so you may want to investigate this. Forewarned is forearmed.

[McDuck]

1528 NZD
Gold price today. 5 APR 2009
(Obama visits Europe, they seem to be working it out, the French are being contrary as usual.)

http://goldprice.org/NewCharts/gold/images/gold_1d_o_NZD.png

[Austrokiwi]

1528 NZD
Gold price today. 5 APR 2009
(Obama visits Europe, they seem to be working it out, the French are being contrary as usual.)

http://goldprice.org/NewCharts/gold/...d_1d_o_NZD.png

Quoting in NZ$ doesn't really tell all the story: Gold is now below US$900.00 oz. Some are attributing the IMF news to this. US$900.00 was a key base support level for gold, IMHO the support level will now be around US$850.00oz; if gold goes below that many ETF investors will cut away fast , and the Gold price could drop the same way it did last september. The good thing is the Third world gold markets will start operating more normally around US$700.00 oz so should ( doesn't mean will) act as a back stop

[McDuck]

just because people store it doesn't make it money badger.

Hey, ! no fair.

You cant say that the set of "People" equals the smaller sub set of "bankers and elites".

Thats not great logic.

[TonyMacaroni]

Quoting in NZ$ doesn't really tell all the story: Gold is now below US$900.00 oz. Some are attributing the IMF news to this. US$900.00 was a key base support level for gold, IMHO the support level will now be around US$850.00oz; if gold goes below that many ETF investors will cut away fast , and the Gold price could drop the same way it did last september. The good thing is the Third world gold markets will start operating more normally around US$700.00 oz so should ( doesn't mean will) act as a back stop

The IMF has also just been given permission by the G20 to 'print' $250 billion in SDR's - will the inflationary results of this and other actions have an effect on short term gold prices? Who knows? ... So much disinformation out there... I'm going out for breakfast...

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/g20-authorizes-global-printing-money-out-thin-air/16079

[McDuck]

Quoting in NZ$ doesn't really tell all the story:

You are correct my friend.
But I do not try to tell "the story".
I try to tell "A story", a story of my little lost New Zealand dollar, as it wanders its way through a series of strange transformations.

[Baron Silas Greenback]

That's the perception bankers have fostered upon the unsuspecting, however gold must still be regarded as money - If gold was no longer money or a store of value then bankers and elites would no longer store it.

Who said that gold was not a store of value? Being a store of value does not equal it being money.

Gold is a commodity, end of story. the IMF might be selling some of this commodity for money, but that doesn't make the commodity = money.

[Badger]

just because people store it doesn't make it money badger.

Well its a commodity tpr2

I dont disagree that it can be used as currency but there's more to being money that just being a store of value or something rich people buy.

As quoted in above post...

For embedded in the demand for money is knowledge of the money-prices of the immediate past; in contrast to directly-used consumers’ or producers’ goods, money must have preexisting prices on which to ground a demand. But the only way this can happen is by beginning with a useful commodity under barter, and then adding demand for a medium for exchange to the previous demand for direct use (e.g., for ornaments, in the case of gold).

M Rothbard "What Has Government Done To Our Money

[Badger]

Who said that gold was not a store of value? Being a store of value does not equal it being money.

Gold is a commodity, end of story. the IMF might be selling some fo this commodity for money, but that doesnt make the commodity = money.

Many state that its not a store of value Tricky, Tucker and Jumpin have posted this many times.

The IMF is buying currency. Money dosnt come into it in my percepetion.
Fiat Currency has no weight or history, it's artificial.

In the first place, most tangible physical goods are traded in terms of weight. Weight is the distinctive unit of a tangible commodity, and so trading takes place in terms of units like tons, pounds, ounces, grains, grams, etc.3 Gold is no exception. Gold, like other commodities, will be traded in units of weight.

M Rothbard "What Has Government Done To Our Money

When have printed promisary notes ever been a commodity?

[Baron Silas Greenback]

You sure that you are stating what they said correctly? Every commodity is a store of value, just that the 'value' is more fluid in some than others.... and golds qualities as a store of value are often being overstated nowdays.

[Badger]

You sure that you are stating what they said correctly? Every commodity is a store of value, just that the 'value' is more fluid in some than others.... and golds qualities as a store of value are often being overstated nowdays.

Im not disputing your logic there and I agree....which goes back to the previous post sure oil would be great but storing oil is tricky.

The difference being is that through out history gold /silver have already been used as a means of direct exchange and oil dissapears as it is used.

The value of gold today imo is based on a monetary aspect rather than pure commodity. Maybe central banks and governments should stop printing trillions of dollars and debasing our currencies?

As I have stated if it wasnt regarded as money in any shape and form in todays world then this thread is irrelavent! Apparently the bankers and elites see things far differently from average joe out in society since average joe has no gold but a kiwisaver account losing its value.

[Austrokiwi]

Badger:


I think you may have missed a point regarding the IMF getting permission to issue SDR and sell gold. In taking this step the final reminants of the Breton woods agreement are being taken away. The fact that the IMF will be selling gold provides more evidence that gold is no longer money.

[outspoken]

Let me put my thoughts down in laymans terms and see if that brings any clarity.

Money=> Any commodity or thing, of value or perceived value, (in the case of notes and coin) through which it can be exchanged for other goods or services.

Currency=> The defined standard means of exchange, determined by a Countries Central Bank. Almost always defined by paper notes and or coins.

Therefore Gold, Silver, Oil, Cattle hell even Chickens could be used as money but seeing as they are finite (which stops the infinite growth model) they also have division and storage problems etc, so they are exchanged for currency.

Currency can be created infinitely and therefore will devalue over time (long or short) but commodities will hold, increase or decrease their value over time relative to the amount of currency in circulation. This is reflected in price.

The IMF is the International Monetary Fund as as such doesn't hold their money in any one particular currency (with good reason, US reserve aside) They do however hold their money in Gold and or Silver.
The fact that this is so demonstrates these commodities ability to act as money, a hedge against currency if you will.

Notwithstanding Gold also has an energy content. (As does Oil, Gas, etc)
If Chickens could do everything Gold can do the IMF might hold their money in them. lol

Joking aside, could one argue that electrons are money to? given that I have to go to an ATM, eftpos or Bank to exchange my electrons for currency?

[Gatekeeper]

Badger:


I think you may have missed a point regarding the IMF getting permission to issue SDR and sell gold. In taking this step the final reminants of the Breton woods agreement are being taken away. The fact that the IMF will be selling gold provides more evidence that gold is no longer money.

But aren't they only selling gold they have attained since 1976?
And don't they still have to get approval from the US Congress (that's weird isn't it!). So far congress hasn't approved sales to enable forgiveness of third world debts due to the World Gold Council/Newmont etc having sway over US congressmen. (Corruption?)

Would love to see the US lose it's veto rights with the UN, World bank and IMF. Maybe some real good could be done once the interest groups (US/UK Corporations raping resources from poor countries) are put in their place.

But I'm probably off-topic here

[tpr2]

Maybe that raises the question gate keeper.... who owns the IMF and the World Bank?