So Key is standing by Parata...

[muppet]

Please note
Principal not principle.

[Perry]

Yeah: standing on Principle
is one thing, eh?

[muppet]

It appears that Novopay is standing on the Principals.

[Bob Kane]

. . certainly is wont be those behind the idea,
be they politicians or bureaucrats or Talent4 . . .

I'm pointing my finger at the bureaucrats.

[Bob Kane]

It appears the teachers can't find anyone to sue ...

... so they'll protest outside National MPs' offices.

Not sure what that is suppose to achieve.
At least it's in the teachers own time.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10869134

Teachers to protest Novopay problems at National MPs' offices

[Wayne]

... so they'll protest outside National MPs' offices.

Not sure what that is suppose to achieve.
At least it's in the teachers own time.

Maybe some one will take notice. You'd probably want to protest if you didn't get paid for weeks on end!
Teachers do a lot in their own time - it is far from a 8-5 job.

[Learning]

Have you got kids of school age Bob? You don't seem to be coming across as very sympathetic to the people who are shaping the minds of the next generation.

[speights boy]

These two headlines will make the Teachers and Administrators sleep easier tonight.

Novopay decision soon - but more pain to come: Joyce
Education boss' $425,000 golden handshake

www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8380550/Novopay-decision-soon-but-more-pain-to-come-Joyce
www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8383970/Education-boss-425-000-golden-handshake

[Wayne]

One thing I will say about Joyce is that he seems straight up - talks the talk but walks it also.

[Winston001]

Have you got kids of school age Bob? You don't seem to be coming across as very sympathetic to the people who are shaping the minds of the next generation.

Since my children started school 15 years ago my respect for teachers has grown tremendously. Unfortunately teachers as a group also tend to make constant negative pronouncements - essentially they are always complaining. Individually they are great people doing an important job and personally I am appalled at this Nopay fiasco.

Where it goes wrong is they try to turn it into a political issue. Protesting at National MPs homes?? Why not Ministry of Education managers homes? That would be the rational choice. But no, much easier to attack the Minister and her colleagues as if Parliament had deliberately decided to create this debacle. Shallow nonsense.

Still the primary problem is teachers and support staff (teacher aides, caretakers, cleaners etc) not being correctly paid. Ultimately on the basis of Ministerial responsibility I actually do think Parata should resign - not cos its her fault, but because sometimes the Minister has to take the fall. That is Westminster democracy.

[Bob Kane]

Have you got kids of school age Bob? You don't seem to be coming across as very sympathetic to the people who are shaping the minds of the next generation.

The kids I see walking around the street don't read, can't spell and can't count. And quite a few can't get jobs.
So teachers are 'shaping the minds'?
I suppose Julie Andrews was quite a role model but current school teachers need to be held to account for their performance.


And quite an interesting comment from Steven Joyce today:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10869272

"I understand they want the thing solved, but actually there's a wider range of villains in this ... This problem goes back many years and in fact this is the second pay system which has been difficult."
Mr Joyce said there had been similar issues with the pay system for teachers introduced in the 1990s.
"So there's something about the way we pay our teachers in this country as well which causes a problem whenever the software is changed ... We do have to get to the bottom of that."

Seems exactly as I've been saying all along - the teachers have a 'unique' pay system which is extremely difficult to implement.
They can only blame themselves.

[Perry]

Ultimately on the basis of Ministerial responsibility I actually do think Parata should resign -
not cos its her fault, but because sometimes the Minister has to take the fall. That is
Westminster democracy.

Take responsibility? You jest? Just as well she's not Japanese, or it could be a sharp fall.

[Winston001]

LOL despite your cynicism Perry, plenty of Ministers have resigned. As intimated above, its a hallmark of the Westminster parliamentary system. When people complain about NZ not having a Constitution (we do but its derived over hundreds of years) they don't realise there is already a complex set of rules which protects us from unbridled power. These days its embodied in the efforts of the Fourth Estate but it works.

For example:

• Denis Marshall resigned after Cave Creek
• Kate Wilkinson resigned over Pike River
• Lianne Dalziel resigned
• Nick Smith resigned
• Richard Worth resigned
• Derek Quigley resigned
• Even David Lange resigned.

[Perry]

Yes. And there have been others, like Ruth Dyson.
After a time, some sneak back to the trough.

Maybe scepticism, rather than cynicism, but I wont
argue that point too strongly.

[donna]

I think I said it in an earlier post - a techie term = 'garbage in, garbage out'. If the data going in is not good - what comes out will be equally bad.

Most software developers would be thinking this of the teachers' payment saga. It's easy to blame the provider but while you're pointing one finger at them there are three pointing back at you and Steven Joyce is the 'go to guy' for this type of admission and disaster recovery.

cheers,

Donna