Electrical safety audits

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

How many property owners get electrical safety audits done on their properties?

If a place is left vacant and disconnected for a period of time (a few months), an electrical safety check will be required prior to reconnection. However, if the place is almost continuously tenanted, it could go unchecked for years, even decades.

I live in a rented flat in a block of 5. They are all owned by the same person and managed by a well known real estate company.

When I moved in here, I tested all electrical outlets and found a working but dangerous one. I advised the property manager who arranged for an electrician to replace it. The electrician also spotted an issue with 4 out of 5 of the light fittings here and arrangements were made to replace those on a subsequent visit.

I also had concerns about a wall heater and asked the electrician to test/tag it or remove it. He tested it and found it dodgy and removed it. 2 of the other flats still have their (same) wall heaters and I assume the other 2 do as well. All potential issues. These are 1960's style flats and I'd say the wall heaters could well have been fitted from new.

A couple of months later the flat next door was tenanted. I went next door and helped my new neighbor by extracting a broken lightbulb from a fitting. I also tested all her sockets, found one which was faulty/dangerous and instructed her not to use it and to promptly report it to the PM.

About a week ago I installed a heated towel rail (with a plug) in the bathroom. I had already heard of the requirement to have an RCD or hardwired electricals in a bathroom, but I was again reminded at this time. I thought I'd better check this out for sure so I contacted the electrician company who handles these flats, had a chat with the guy there, who confirmed what I had already suspected - namely that, the wiring here may never have been compliant, in other words, unprotected electrical sockets have apparently never been allowed in a bathroom.

At this point - I thought I'd better call the PM and ask for a proper electrical inspection to be done here for my piece of mind.

I also followed up with my neighbor and found that she had not told the PM and she had been using the socket, despite me telling her not to. I also found that another neighbor had a electrical safety problem they had not reported, despite knowing of it for a month.

At this point I realised - I care about this because of my experience in electronics and my understanding. Lots of other people don't. As long as something works, they don't give a s*, even if warned something is dangerous.

This one is being sorted because I alerted the PM to the issue. The PM has advised the owner will be getting an inspection on all the flats. But I'm unusual. Most people just assume all's fine as long as it doesn't not-work. But we are talking issues which could cause someone to get electrocuted or start a fire.

I think there is a lesson here for some landlords - especially those renting out older properties.

[Perry]

About a week ago I installed a heated towel rail (with a plug) in the bathroom.
I had already heard of the requirement to have an RCD or hardwired electricals
in a bathroom, but I was again reminded at this time.

Removable plug sockets in a bathroom are ordinarily only allowed if
it is an RCD socket unit or the circuit is RDC circuit breaker protected.
(Or the like) The old shaver power points were limited to a very low
power draw. Most heated towel rails are hard wired, (as shown below)
rather then using a removable plug.



By installing a plug-in item in the bathroom, into what seems like
an unprotected circuit, you may unwittingly be creating a hazard.

I thought I'd better check this out for sure so I contacted the electrical company
who handles these flats, had a chat with the guy there, who confirmed what I had
already suspected - namely that, the wiring here may never have been compliant,
in other words, unprotected electrical sockets have apparently never been allowed
in a bathroom.

It would be most unusual for a socket (not being a shaver type)
to be in a bathroom - yes.

Back in that era, there were electrical inspectors who had to test
and sign-off residential dwelling wiring, so those bathroom power
points may have been an illegal retrofit.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

By installing a plug-in item in the bathroom, into what seems like
an unprotected circuit, you may unwittingly be creating a hazard.



It would be most unusual for a socket (not being a shaver type)
to be in a bathroom - yes.

Back in that era, there were electrical inspectors who had to test
and sign-off residential dwelling wiring, so those bathroom power
points may have been an illegal retrofit.

Thanks Perry for your contribution.

For the record, I am not "creating" a hazard as there was already a socket there. There needs to be as it's combined bathroom/laundry. Also for the record, the PM has indicated an appropriate response so this is not about them. Just raising a discussion point. I think this may be a common issue.

[Perry]

For the record, I am not "creating" a hazard as there was already a socket there.

Could be. But why make use of a socket when you know that it's
unprotected? Perhaps 'compounding' would be better word than
creating? The problem is not the hemlock growing there, it's the
eating of it that creates/compounds the problem. Maybe, waaay
back then, there was an exemption for laundries or bathroom-
laundry combinations?

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

Could be. But why make use of a socket when you know that it's
unprotected?

Um, how else am I going to do my washing? By hand? Is this something you do Mr Land Lord or is it just the plebs who rent who have to suck it?

Also because I very much dislike drying my hands on towels which get wetter and wetter and having to chuck said towels into the washing machine on a daily basis. It's something I've added to my list of small things I look for in places... You know, like an oven that works, and preferably has convection (ie: fan) option.... and window locks. Small things which improve a place - but which many landlords are just too stingy to offer....

[PC]

Capital gains Tax and a WOF will fix that.
Hope you like paying a lot more rent :-)

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

Capital gains Tax and a WOF will fix that.
Hope you like paying a lot more rent :-)

That claim is silly scare tactics because consider how much rents have increased in Auckland and Christchurch without a capital gains tax and rental WOF

Rents in both are sky high because of economic opportunity there.

I live in Wanganui. The economy here is a lot smaller. Do I think rents are going to increase as you claim if a CGT/WOF is introduced? No. People here won't pay them and the properties will remain untenanted.

[Perry]

Could be. But why make use of a socket when you know that it's unprotected?

Um, how else am I going to do my washing?

Do my washing? Your safety concern post was about adding a heated
towel rail, was it not? Yes - here it is:

About a week ago I installed a heated towel rail (with a plug) in the bathroom.

Given what you know about protected circuits, how is you installing
a heated towel rail to a socket that you know is unprotected some
how the LL's fault?

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

Do my washing? Your safety concern post was about adding a heated
towel rail, was it not? Yes - here it is:



Given what you know about protected circuits, how is you installing
a heated towel rail to a socket that you know is unprotected some
how the LL's fault?

I'm not sure how you draw your comparisons, but to make it clear - the bathroom and laundry are one. If I want to wash my clothes, charge my toothbrush and have a heated towel rail I damn well will. Are these things too elite for a tenant in your opinion? To make it crystal clear - the compliance issue isn't the heated towel rail, it's the socket. The socket is required to be RCD protected irrespective of what it's used for. In case this was never covered in 'Capitalism 101 - introduction to landlordery" class I assume you attended (tongue in cheek), a issue like this brings the electrical compliance status of the flat into doubt. (ie: something relevant to tenants safety and owners insurance FYI)

If your response is reflecting your point of view, you best go and look at the RTA and have a talk with your insurance company. Guaranteed both will concur with me. Then go and make sure your own backyard is in order. Have you obtained building or contents insurance lately? If so, did you pay attention to the questions asked? If not, have you looked at current policy wording? You may be in for a surprise. Insurance companies are very risk adverse after the hits they've taken in the last few years and are getting real picky. (Same would say snaky).

I'm rather annoyed at your post because the not so subtle theme is a suggestion the tenant should suck up and accommodate whatever the landlord wants to offer (in their great benevolence no doubt). Let nothing get in the way of record profits right?

[Learning]

I think Keys pretty much covered the financial consequences of this topic very recently. $50,000 fine.

http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?35044-Any-of-you-PM-s-got-contingency-plans-for-a-50k-fine

[Leftette]

I read the OP with interest. Well worded and relevant. However by the end of the thread I'm thinking 'someone has somewhat of a large chip on their shoulder'.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

I read the OP with interest. Well worded and relevant. However by the end of the thread I'm thinking 'someone has somewhat of a large chip on their shoulder'.

You are either ignorant of the post I was responding to, or in agreement with the position expoused by said poster. Do you really believe I should not use said appliances (washing machine, electric toothbrush and heated towel rail) because the owner of the place has avoided or been unaware of this issue until now? If so, you are the one with the chip.

Note: this thread is not about this flat, the owner of this place or the PM. I have alerted the PM to the matter and they have advised they will remedy it. That is good by me. My intent in bring this matter up it's because is likely far from unique and to raise it as a discussion point.

[Perry]

You're getting in a tizz over very little. Talk about elitism is errant, to say the least.
RCDs are a fairly modern invention. If you elect to use a plug that may have been
valid for a washing machine, but not so for another purpose that you know has the
potential to be unsafe, how is that the LL's fault? As for this:

the tenant should suck up and accommodate whatever the landlord wants to offer

. . . you are bordering on being rabid. It becomes a choice to use or not. That is
not the same as safe or not.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

If you elect to use a plug that may have been
valid for a washing machine, but not so for another purpose that you know has the
potential to be unsafe, how is that the LL's fault?

I think you are trolling as your post above is so rediculous. It's a mains socket ffs. It's no different to any other mains socket you, I and everyone else here uses every day without thinking about it. How many times do I have to repeat this? If you read the previous posts properly you would understand the issue.... or maybe not (in your case)....

I thought you 'got it' based on your previous post...

The issue is not what's plugged into it. It's the fact there is a socket there at all. Obviously there needs to be a socket otherwise I'd be demanding they install one (as any other tenant would). So there is a socket. But no RCD. All it needs is the RCD.

All brand new builds in the last 5 years have them as requirement. All rewires and new runs (from switch board) in existing building done within last 5 years have them as requirement. Most new builds within several years prior had them. My new build in 2000 had all electrical sockets RCD protected.

Nothing complex or unusual.

[Perry]

You have established that it is unsafe for certain uses.
Don't go away mad, just go away.