Retired from Property People?

[Perry]

"authentic happiness."

Now there's a good descriptor.

I wonder what "counterfeit happiness"
would be? Would knowing that aid someone
in working out what its antonym is/was?

What is worthy to experience? Not sure anyone can
answer that as each of us interprets our experiences
differently. It's our perspectives and insights that give
us wisdom, not our experiences. Some people can
travel the world and still return with a closed mind!

I can only agree with part of that, but it could be a
matter of nomenclature. In my view, information
(impersonal), when experienced, becomes knowledge
(personal). Wisdom is knowing the correct application
of knowledge. Or something close to that.

Personally, I think that explaining how other people
see the world to our kids is important. After all, we
have to deal with other people all the time so surely,
understanding others is as important as understanding
ourselves.

That is good advice. It's similar to what I mentioned
before regarding certain inevitabilities. E.g. you get
a job, start a business, go on welfare (family or state
provided), or you die. If one of the first 3, you'll need
to now about money, the banking system (or credit
union), including credit cards. Financial
management/intelligence, consumer law, vehicle
ownership/driving legal and expense requirements,
being dollared-to-death by a cell phone, and so on.

None of those presumes on the juveniles life experiences,
lack thereof, or their interpretation. My grand daughter
has a job, knows what passive income is and has
a credit card. She's 'under-age,' so I'm the supervisor
guarantor. She's learning lots, but she still has (in
my view) too much scope for (shall I say) unguided
experiences.

The pair that I referred to said something along these
lines, we're young, we're in love, we have had that
experience, we've looked at the world, especially that
of our respective parents and it's all downhill from
here. So, why bother?

In considering those comments, I don't think it prudent
to make too much of my potentially faulty memory.
Also, regarding parents, I have no way of knowing
what sort of family they come from. What struck me
was a lack of the "what is life about" dimension.
Maybe it wasn't lacking? Maybe they just didn't
mention it?

It's quite a conundrum, particularly so for juveniles,
as those sad statistics attest to.

[drelly]

Leapy - I like your "authentic happiness" phrase. I think a lot of us try to manufacture happiness with "stuff".

Mal - Wouldn't want to send any unsuspecting publishers down the gurgler!

Perry - I must admit to being one of those morbid teenagers (in the 80's) that didn't see a lot of future for the world. In fact, I never really planned anything for my future until I was about 25. I'm pretty sure it was the whole nuclear holocaust thing. Terrible topic to burden school kids with! I'm not sure what they thought they were doing showing movies like "Threads" to impressionable teenagers!

[mals69]

Why is the western world

so fixated on happiness which is such a fickle medium ?
I do not think we are designed to be "happy" 100 percent of the time.
The 100 percent smiley happy people belong to the faces of actors of marketing like on the many adverts that try and convince us that if you have this will result in this well maybe short term.


I prefer contentment.

[Gatekeeper]

I think maybe being satisfied would be a more appropriate word than "happiness", with its conetations of smiley happy people. So many people seem to get little out of life these days, and seem to need the thrills of new toys and trappings of wealth to get some payback.

I doubt people with these values are ever really "satisfied", they always seem to want more and more to fill that gap.

[SuperDad]

drelly,

I was also a dissatisfied teenager, although in my case it had nothing to to with nuclear worries! I do remember being very worried about nuclear was during my two years at intermediate school. I now realise that this was around the time that Soviet fighters shot down Korean Air Flight 007, killing 269 people including an American Senator. America wasn't very happy about that. So I think that the prospect of global nuclear war loomed large during those times.

I think that despair is part of the teenage condition. Its a human tradgedy that sometimes this despair ends in death.

I was discussing this topic with a friend recently, and we agreed that teenagehood is a difficult time. (My friend has a teenage son.) The relationships one forms during that time are very intense - first love, first broken heart and, if one is not careful, first STI (previously STD). (FYI, I was careful!) I believe that one is in many ways grown up by the time one is 16-17. One's values, preferences and dislikes are quite well-formed. (I knew, for example, that I never wanted to spend my life working for a wage while my employer got rich on the back of my efforts. I have not changed my mind on this point.) But this is coupled with the belief that no one else in the whole world really understands what it is like to be you. As a result, I think one can end up feeling very emotionally isolated. As one gets older, one realises that you were wrong about this - others do have similar experiences .

Anyway, that's just my theory.

Paul.

[McDuck]

It’s just hormones.

Society has become so un-natural.

All the anthropology movies I endured in dodgy black and white showed how it is supposed to be done.

You get to a certain age..
you get something cut off or pierced or some mud implanted under your skin somewhere.
Monday you are a child, Tuesday you are a man.
then you take your place as a adult and do your duty and responsibilities….you know make babies and go and hunt stuff.

No tortured souls there.

[Monid]

I'm inclined to think that despair, particular the self destructive sort faced by some teens is really a philosophical problem. Ultimately I think the cause is a lack of a sense of purpose, of point to life.

It is a consequence of our surfit of resources, this gives us time to think about it, and removes one of the classic givers of purpose, namely the struggle to survive, let alone flourish.

You can see this very clearly in Northern Ireland where youth suicide is now increasing at a rate of %10 per year. Why? Well in my opinion the rise in youth suicide can be directly related to the reduction in purpose in the life of Northern Ireland youth, they no longer have an enemy (As much) to hate and try and destroy... Which removes an important source of purpose and meaning from the life of Northern Ireland youth. (Of course on the whole its still better...)

To a large degree I see this much the same as the work of philosophers such as Sarte, and in particular Camus, who thought the main question of philosophers ought to be why should we not kill ourselves now?

David

[Perry]

David
When Camus (Albert, wasn't it?) made that statement,
was he proceeding from Aristotle? I.e. if there wasn't
something one did for no teleological* purpose, then
why bother with anything at all?

Thanks to Paul for adding that word to my lexicon

[Monid]

Hi Perry

Actually I don't know, but thanks I've never looked at Albert Camus as a successor from Aristotle, but there is some sense in that connection in a loose sense. I'm not a history of ideas man myself so whether there is any closer ties than that I have no idea. To give you the exact quote it is:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."

David

[McDuck]

All well and good...but isn't the idea behind this thread

If I may use a transport analogy...

not about why we are on the train ,
or where the train is going ..
or why some choose to get off when it's still going...

but rather how to get a nice comfortable window seat.

[Perry]

Who's Responsible?

I'm inclined to think that despair,
particular the self destructive sort faced by some teens is
really a philosophical problem. Ultimately I think the
cause is a lack of a sense of purpose, of point to life.

No argument from me, with that.

It is a consequence of our surfeit of
resources, this gives us time to think about it, and
removes one of the classic givers of purpose, namely the
struggle to survive, let alone flourish.

A surfeit of resources the sole cause? Interesting. Is this
just a part of the (alleged) increasing onset of the leisure
society?

And if a lack of a sense of purpose, or point to life is the
prime cause, David, who do you think is (or should be)
responsible for providing / imbuing it in the rising
generation? Are we not culpable? If we are, how can we
change such things?

Further, if we are to teach a sense of purpose, or point to
life, we need to know what it is, ourselves.

Do we?

If so, will they believe us?

[McDuck]

This is all good stuff…but you are asking the wrong people.

Child psychologists …Priests …those are the people who will be able to answer your questions.

Here we are solving the much more simple tasks related to money, land and houses.

Seriously…go down to your local university library and read everything they have on the subject.
The yield for your investment of time will be far greater.

[Perry]

But people are so much more interesting to interact with than books.