Granny flat without council permission

[vice]

Hi everyone

I have an interesting situation where a house I own has an unpermitted studio basement conversion which has a shower, toilet, kitchen sink, bathroom sink and washing machine connection.

I live in the basement conversion on my own and rent out the three bedroom house above. I have heard of the court cases where people living in an unpermitted dwelling have been able to claim all their rent back, but are my tenants above me in the original dwelling likely able to claim the same due to the unpermitted residence below them?

I would ring the council and ask but obviously I am a little nervous to do so =P

[DaveW]

I doubt it, however if you have an unpermitted kitchen downstairs I would get that checked in case there's a fire youwill not be covered and upstairs could sue you. Talk to your lawyer if in doubt.

[vice]

Good point, however there is not a traditional kitchen with hob and oven, just a bench top hot plate and small bench top plug in type oven. Do you think that would be a problem?

[DaveW]

That is a common situation and it could be a problem if it causes a fire (non fire rated walls , insufficient ventilation, etc). However I'm not adverse on your council legislation around this. If you have concerns you could ask (anonymously) at the council or tenancy advisory, or lawyer.

But even if the cooker is not a problem but let's say it causes a problem for which the upstairs tenant makes a complaint which could then expose your unconsemted plumbing works.

A good builder might be able to quote the work required to make it permitted.

[elguapo]

Hi everyone

I have an interesting situation where a house I own has an unpermitted studio basement conversion which has a shower, toilet, kitchen sink, bathroom sink and washing machine connection.

I live in the basement conversion on my own and rent out the three bedroom house above. I have heard of the court cases where people living in an unpermitted dwelling have been able to claim all their rent back, but are my tenants above me in the original dwelling likely able to claim the same due to the unpermitted residence below them?

I would ring the council and ask but obviously I am a little nervous to do so =P

Are you renting the upstairs are a separate tenancy, or as a flatshare?

[klauster]

You live in your house, why would you take the risk and hassle dividing it and give up the control by a tenancy agreement? Why not providing accommodation on a flat-share agreement?

[DaveW]

I agree rent by the room, flat-share, etc, gives you more control. However, you can still be held accountable under public liability.

[klauster]

However, you can still be held accountable under public liability.

What is your risk, having control/being liable or being a puppet for tenancy tribunal and council?

[DaveW]

What is your risk, having control/being liable or being a puppet for tenancy tribunal and council?

The real risk is having someone suffer from smoke inhalation in your un-consented house.

[John the builder]

Under the building act you are allowed self contained spaces within the same household, Think granny flats. If you live there in the building then they are flatmates or boarders. Don't rent as a separate tenancy. If you do you risk being accused of separate households which triggers fire separation and the like.

The problem is the ignorance in the TT and disgruntled tenants who see an opportunity for personal gain. The 'ingles' appeal is good law on this.

The argument is whether under the RTA s45 the existence of un-permitted or unconsented work is unlawful?

The building act doesn't make building unlawful unless dangerous or insanitary so unconsented work is not unlawful but there may be an offence to person who carried that work out. The offence stopped with that person.

Get a safe and sanitary report done and lodge with council.They certainly accept these for pre 1991 work but there is no reason that you should not be able to for even recent work but this has been clouded by CoA that give a greater level of approval but you have to submit to council policy and power of decision. Get the electrics checked and a electrical certificate provided.

As long as electrics were done by registered electrician then they were approved as electricians self certify.

Disclose the work to tenant, council and insurer and what is the problem?

[DaveW]

Where's the "Agree" button when one needs one

Maybe John can recommend a builder in your area ?

[John the builder]

The real risk is having someone suffer from smoke inhalation in your un-consented house.

and how does that risk differ whether consented or not?

[elguapo]

and how does that risk differ whether consented or not?

It doesn't, but there is a significant industry built up around maximising uncertainty on these issues, esp in Auckland.

[John the builder]

uncertainty that is only based on ignorance and complicity

[DaveW]

and how does that risk differ whether consented or not?

non disclosure of un-consented works will invalidate your insurance cover for starters.