Property manager issue

[AustinWong]

Hi all,

Agreed for property manager to undertake maintenance. Agreed $2000 + $500 for any extras as was advised by maintenance man.

Bill came in at $4,900 including a stack of extras. I had agreed a few but would have expected to be told if budget exceeded.

Frustrated with this. Apparently property manager told maintenance man the budget as well.

Property manage has acknowledged that things got out of hand. But has pointed out that maintenance work would have needed to have been done at some stage.

Question is if maintenance was needed why not have told me to start with. Gaah.

I also would have gotten 2 quotes at least for such a large amount of work.

Also annoys property manager has not at any stage commented on the bill in my support.

I know I am not obliged to pay for what I did not ask, but it would have improved the property.

I am also not pleased as some days the person was there for 2 to 4 hours and I know I will be paying for inefficiencies and also the $5 travel per day despite not doing a full day.

I am thinking if paying for the extra to deduct for inefficiencies and unnecessary travel seeing he did not do full days. Also ask for a discount, which he should have offered anyhow.

Also thought about property manager paying at their expense an independant review of the work to make sure I have not paiod over the odds. I know a person I can trust to review the work. He was going to do the work initially but did not have the time.

Am I being too particular and just pay up? Your thoughts folks and please keep it centered with a balance view where possible.

Thanks

Lawrence

[drelly]

I really don't think there's any excuse for this. Didn't they get a quote? What excuse do they have for not confirming added expense with you? That's DOUBLE what you approved!

I would definitely get someone else to review it to make sure you're not getting ripped off. Haven't you had problems with this PM before?

[PC]

If you've given them permission to spend $2,500 then that's what I'd pay them.
Terminate their agency agreement today.

Don't be afraid to play a bit of hardball.
I'd even be prepared to argue in small claims court over it.
You might even win.

[markw1]

Pay them the $2500 max amount that you allowed, sack the PM and take it too another. It's like getting an agent to bid on your behalf for a property to a maximum of $100,000 and you find out they bid $200,000.

[spurner]

Ah, the joys of managing properties (or managers) from afar!

I would be pissed if I were you. The point is not about "improving the value" or "it would need to have been done anyway". The point is they exceeded your budget limit. I'd offer to pay $2500 and that's it.

If anything, it is the maintenance mans fault for exceeding the budget, although I suspect there is a chance that the PM never actually explicitly told him there was a budget in the first place!

[freezinhot]

The pm is never going to be as frugal with your money as you are, but a quotes should have been enough, although these can be a little out sometimes.

FH

[AustinWong]

Yes I have had issues before.

Only problem with sacking the PM is that the option for PM is not much better I am picking. If there even are any left in Dannevirke. The last time I made contact with a PM at another agency they never really got back to me.

My wife says we should extend an olive branch.

I dunno, business is business. Also around christmas due to her slackness I loss about 3 week window to get the place rented because she was slack to start with to get the work done.

I worry if I play hardball that she chucks it in as I am sure she is entitled. So a hard decision to make from the UK. Anymore suggestions or angles to consider?

Thanks.

[drelly]

If you don't want to play hardball, you could put the ball in their court. Remind them that you only approved up to $2500 and ask them how much of the balance they are going to cover. If you let them get away with it, they will do it again and again. Are they making a percentage on the cost of repairs?

[Wayne]

Read them the riot act and advise them that you will pay $3200 - $2500 approved and split the differance on the balance. Move on and be wary next time. They will learn slowly.

I expect that the PM added their commission for 'organising' this - refuse to pay that also.

[Cassandra]

Your PM states he did inform the contractor of your budget. Your PM has probably been put on the spot by the contractor too, and if this is the case – in your PMs defence- aim your ire at the contractor. The contractor may have been opportunist in earning extra $ on this job? Regardless, he has not been very professional by not communicating processes and escalating costs to his customer.
I’ve been caught out with overcharging situations before and have been ticked off as much as my properly owner! In the past I have phoned a contractor and given them a piece of my mind stating that if they cannot confer and get acceptance for works over budget i will not use their services again. Most of my regular and loyal contractors are good at giving me a call if work and costs prove more extensive than originally thought. Or they will work to budget; down-tools at that point and separately quote any extra work.
There are situations where the job blows out to be bigger without contingency for delay if work is critical to meet health & safety requirements – but being well informed of this is also necessary so that The PM can in turn inform the owner of the necessity and the urgency and –perhaps- the risks or consequences of not being done.
Was there a written quote? Then it must be adhered to, however, even so, the Consumer Guarantees act statues are that “”If you have not previously agreed to a price or pricing formula, you are required to pay only a "reasonable price". A reasonable price is the market price”
Check out if you’ve been overcharged by getting comparison quotes for the work done and the hourly rates from other contractors

[Green Fish]

AustinWong: Nothing can be done about the $4900 bill from the tradesman. The contract was between you and the tradesman.

As for the PM, you can claim damages, but have you suffered any damage? Probably not.

The moral of the story is to avoid PMs, and wipe your bottom yourself.

[Perry]

If you authorised the expenditure to a set figure,
you are in a good position - so long as it's in
writing/e-mail, or the like. As Drelly has reminded
us, this is not a new phenomenon for you, with
this particular PM. I dimly recall offering you one
possible alternative.

As you have persisted with this PM out of fear,
you may be your own worst enemy.

[AustinWong]

HI Drelly, Yes she has made a cut as they all do.

Green Fish - I wipe me bottom pretty good generally but seem to have been wiping hers as well. You may have not noted from my posts and my location but I am in the UK at the moment. So if you could magic me a solution on how to manage a property from here directly including locating tenants I am all ears.

Perry - Quite right you did offer via Private message on 5 May 08, thanks ,I responded on 6 May 08 and gave my private email. But never got a response, any reason? And admittedly some truth in the whole fear thing.

For the others some good points made, sorry if I dont answer all individually.

Thanks

[AustinWong]

AustinWong: Nothing can be done about the $4900 bill from the tradesman. The contract was between you and the tradesman.

As for the PM, you can claim damages, but have you suffered any damage? Probably not.

The moral of the story is to avoid PMs, and wipe your bottom yourself.

Not sure I agree. My instructions were clear as was my budget. PM nor Tradesman has yet to demonstrate justification for increased spend. Except it just happened.

By your argument if I was a plumber you engaged to repair a leaking tap while you were out and I looked in your hotwater cupboard, noticed your hotwater cylinder was looking old and changed it without your consent, you would have to pay for this.

To be clear, the work I asked for was done as was a whole list of other things that was not, which were not even identified by the PM. And she has the audacity to say it would have needed to have been done anyway at some stage. My argument is, when I asked you to make a list and it needed doing then why was it not identified at the start. Following on from this, why was I not told.

As a side note, case law would have it that should the service be done and there is a dispute with payment the tradesperson cannot even uplift the work. As an example if you roofed a house you could not come back to remove the roof iron because there was a dispute.

[revdev]

Personally I would pay her the original quote (quick enough, so she knows you aren't just being difficult). The rest is most definitely in dispute, clouded somewhat by the fact that you have a PM issue in the town, and not easy to switch.

And she has the audacity to say it would have needed to have been done anyway at some stage.

You could comprimise and say that for the extra work, you will pay her "at some stage" also. Post dated cheques for the next 2 years should do it!

MORAL OF STORY: OPTIONS: Be careful buying IP's in one horse towns where your options are severely limited (PM's, rent increases, small tenant pool, resale value, resale time, etc). A $120k house at 10% yeild can come with a lot of strings.

All the best
G