Dissatisfied with Solicitor

[propertynewb]

Hi,

I am in the final stages of settling on a property and I met with the Solicitor today to read and sign the mortgage documents. I have been generally unimpressed with his service throughout the process and today I felt that he actually didn't know what he was doing.

I would like to get your advice on what I should/am entitled to do about it. I feel that he is borderline incompetent in some areas and if I hadn't paid so much attention (and increased my stress considerably) then something important could have been missed. To outline a few of the things I am talking about:

- Failed to send all parts of the Kiwisaver First Home Withdrawal Form causing a week long delay in process
- On signing the Statutory Declaration he advised me to write "Auckland" in the "Signed on this day in...." section. I said it should be my home address as a previous Lawyer had told me and he said no. Kiwisaver wouldn't accept Auckland and resubmitting the form delayed the process another three days
- Failed to notify the Vendor's solicitor that I was not happy with part of the building report and wanted something rectified. He only complied with my instruction five days after I checked if he had done it.
- Failed to inform the Vendor's Solicitor that we were happy with the LIM and meth even though I instructed him to do so.
- Failed to pay the deposit on Unconditional date as per the Sale and Purchase Agreement, even though I instructed him on the day to do so. We were four days late.
- Took a day off on the original date we had booked to meet to sign the mortgage forms and didn't tell me, so I got off work early to arrive at his closed office.
- And today, completely messed up the Indicative Statement by inputting the settlement balance and Kiwisaver amount, and attempting to charge over $1000 more in fees than the Tax Invoice I was provided.

I think there was a few more things, but this is all that comes to mind at the moment. I really lack confidence in his ability and feel that he is not advising me on the right information (clearly). I am quite diligent with everything and have put all of the legal documents through an experienced friend to verify, and there isn't anything out of the ordinary so I am confident that I have caught everything.

What would you do in this case? His fees are $1750 for general Conveyancing and 3x Kiwisaver withdrawals.

One thing I asked the Solicitor today that he couldn't answer (or perhaps I didn't understand) - in the Letter of Advice from the bank there is a line that states "The Priority Amount is $xxx.xxx - could anyone explain what this is?

Thanks,

Newb

[Connor]

Sounds like a very bad lawyer. I would talk to another lawyer and ask them if they will reduce fees for less work on the settlement given you're at a late stage of the settlement.

[Anthonyacat]

Don't stress about the Priority Amount, though your lawyer should certainly know what it is.

Basically that is the amount the bank can access of the value of your property, that no one else can secure a mortgage against. They usually set it at about 1.5x what they think the property is worth, so you can't get another mortgage on the same place.

They still can't take any more than you owe them, so it's really not a concern.

May well be time to name and shame this person if he is that bad, to warn others away. Although forum rules require you to identify yourself if you do so.

[cesami20]

I had the same problem with my solicitor. It was not one off bad service. It happened a few times. So at the end after I had done my last conveyancing, I wrote a letter to him with all the evidence which support his poor service and demanded half of money I paid which was more than two grand. He ignored my letter and did not reply. So I wrote a letter again that unless he does compensate by xx date, I'll make an official complaint to Law Society. Then he agreed to pay 1/3 of what I paid. I agreed and didnt want any more hussle. I am never going to recommend him or use his service again. You can go to Law Societ's website. You can lodge a complaint.

[Davo36]

I have dealt with 4 law companies over the years.

They have all done some good work, and some poor work. And charged a lot for both.

Most aren't really that service oriented. They do things in their own time and won't be hurried along.

[Perry]

They have all done some good work, and some poor work. And charged a lot for both.

And isn't that the most galling thing!

Because they have a statutorily protected position, they do seem to think they can get away with just about anything.

[ripeka]

Everything about that experience sounds highly incompetent to me (having worked 20 years in legal offices). Those things are just basic conveyancing knowledge and process even to a legal executive. I would challenge the invoice but as you may know, they will try and make their fee part of the settlement process and get you to pay them their fee upfront. You could allow enough funds for partial payment of their fee and tell them you want to review the invoice in more detail with them for the balance?

[Ivan McIntosh]

Hi,



One thing I asked the Solicitor today that he couldn't answer (or perhaps I didn't understand) - in the Letter of Advice from the bank there is a line that states "The Priority Amount is $xxx.xxx - could anyone explain what this is?

Thanks,

Newb

The priority sum is an amount up to which the bank can lend to you, have it paid back, and re-lend, without losing first priority to a mortgagee registrered behind them in priority.

Lets say you borrow $100k from Bank A on 1st mortgage. You repay $50k. You then borrow $100k from Bank B on second mortgage. So now you owe Bank A $50 1st and Bank B $100k second.

If you borrow another $50k off Bank A, who have the 1st mortgage, that $50k doesn't actually rank 1st....it ranks third, behind Bank B. The 1st mortgage only covers the money lent by Bank A on the day Bank B took its second mortgage. if your property was mortgagee sold, $50k plus interest and costs would go to Bank A, then $100k plus interest and costs to Bank B, and only then would Bank A get its second lot of $50k back.

To solve this, the concept of priority sums was developed, so that a bank can set a number up to which loan funds can be repaid and readvanced without losing priority.

Banks usually set the priority figure well above what they lent you so that (a) they can lend more without needing to vary the mortgage priority amount and (b) anyone wanting to lend you money on second mortgage needs to come to them to talk about an agreed priority figure as between the banks.

[Ivan McIntosh]

PS No competent property lawyer beyond a few months into their career should have a moment's hesitation in telling you what a mortgage priority sum is.

[Aston]

PS No competent property lawyer beyond a few months into their career should have a moment's hesitation in telling you what a mortgage priority sum is.

Maybe it was more a question of the OP not understanding the lawyer's explanation. I recall when I first asked the same question of the bank re. 'priority sum', I was more confused than I was in the first place and regretted asking.

Thanks for the clear explanation Ivan.

[Ivan McIntosh]

Maybe it was more a question of the OP not understanding the lawyer's explanation. I recall when I first asked the same question of the bank re. 'priority sum', I was more confused than I was in the first place and regretted asking.

Thanks for the clear explanation Ivan.

That's a very good point Aston, thank you for adding it. I remember when working as in-house counsel.....one of the chief tasks I set myself was trying to write letters that could be understood by the Chief Exec on first read without my help. If he had to clarify anything with me, I'd go away and try to re-write the offending section. It was really valuable practice....but nonetheless we all as lawyers will sometimes give explanations that are, of themselves, too complex to be immediately understood.

[propertynewb]

Definitely could be

[donna]

Umm maybe you need to be using Ivan

cheers,

Donna


(in case you're wondering - no, I wasn't paid to say this)

[Auckolangi]

Hey - This is an interesting thread.

I wonder what Property Investors are after in a solicitor.
It appears many of you have long established relationships, others have a pretty decent idea of what you need to know etc.
I'm a lawyer but don't have a trust account (aka I'm not after your money) - am just curious.

How many of you use cut-pricers like conveyancing shop etc?
How's your experience with non-lawyers (conveyancing professionals)?

[flyernzl]

I use conveyancing shop.
They're OK, nothing marvelous.