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Anyone get a "gift subscription from a friend" to REI Mag?

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  • David Hows
    Freshie
    • Aug 2006
    • 20

    #31
    You are wrong again Mr. Jones. The Receivers did provide the full advertising and subscription databases to a number of interested parties.

    Fact 1: A very concerned interested party emailed me the full set of databases on 4th Sep 2006, so I know that this action ocurred.
    Fact 2: I immediately sent the following email (this is the exact copy) to the receivers (appointed of course by Mr. Jones)
    Fact 3: The receivers reply is pasted below.
    Fact 4: The estimated 8 interetsed parties now have the databases in excel spreadsheets to send to whoever they like with no chance of being traced. They were sent to parties outside of New Zealand as well, so I doubt very much the receivers interest or ability in enforcing confidentiality agreements with people they have never even met in other countries.

    Sent to Lloyd Hayward 04.09.2006
    Subject: Valuable files distributed publicly by MMH
    Hi Lloyd,

    I am extremely concerned at your actions in handing over the attached detailed valuable records that essentially amount to a large portion of the goodwill value of the KPI magazine. I attach files that I received recently after you emailed to them interested party/s. The files contain intimate detail of all advertisers and subscribers down to postal address and email for the entire business.

    I have also been informed that these files have directly/indirectly have found their way into the hands of KPI’s direct competitor and as a result a group of interested buyers have now withdrawn from any further interest in purchasing the KPI magazine on the basis that the subscriber and advertiser records are no longer confidential.

    These actions I expect on your firms part will substantially reduce both the interest in and sale value of the KPI assets to the detriment of creditors and shareholders.

    Please immediately confirm;
    o Why such detailed files were sent?
    o All the parties they were sent to?
    o That you personally met with them all and confirmed them as legitimate purchasers?
    o Why you have so willingly handed over the most important records of the business without consideration as to the consequences.

    What you are selling here Lloyd is databases. That’s the value if you had not figured it out, and now you have just given them all away for free to be emailed to all sorts of interested parties. I am at a loss to understand how MMH expects to justify such actions. I would expect that they would have only been provided prior to settlement to the purchaser and a high level summary e.g. number and value of subscribers and advertisers was all that was necessary to interested parties.

    Please explain?

    Regards,
    David Hows


    Lloyds reply 05.09.2006

    David
    Any higher level company information provided to potential purchasers has been supplied pursuant to signed confidentiality agreements. Remedies are available if such information is misused by the recipient.

    Prospective purchasers quite rightly expect to receive complete information as to a company's operation in order to maximise their bids.

    Please advise the name of the prospective purchaser you say withdrew. I am aware of one party who has withdrawn and the reasons you put forward are not those given to me for that party's withdrawal. I know of no other party who has expressed interest to me and withdrawn for the reasons you put forward.

    I have given undertaking of confidentiality to prospective purchasers and will not disclose names.
    You allege such disclosure has reduced value. My opinion is that disclosure has supported that value. Without such disclosure interested parties assessment of value would have been significantly less than those we have received.
    Whatever value is achieved it is unlikely to effect shareholders or unsecured creditors. There are three secured creditors and preferential creditors who have priority rights to payment in accordance with the Receiverships Act 1993 and Companies Act 1993. Even if we were to achieve value at or about the high range of value as per the Grant Thornton valuation of December 2005 there is unlikely to be any funds available for unsecured creditors or shareholders. Your assertion that our actions have directly effected unsecured creditors and shareholders is unfounded and refuted.
    All secured lenders have been advised of the sale process and progress to date. They have not expressed any dissatisfaction whatsoever.
    for Paper Ventures Limited (In Receivership)

    L J Hayward
    Receiver
    Meltzer Mason Heath
    PO Box 6302
    Wellesley Street
    Auckland
    New Zealand
    027 241 6566 Mobile

    +64 9 357 6150 phone
    +64 9 357 6152 fax
    [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    www.mmh.co.nz <http://www.mmh.co.nz>


    As for the stolen intellectual property from Peter Spam and Cairns Lockie that I refered to in my earlier post one only has to call William Cairns at Cairns Lockie or contact Peter Spam at his contact details in the URL above and ask them if this theft ocurred. I am sure it's still fresh in their minds.

    David Hows
    www.realestatemagazine.co.nz

    Comment

    • Charlotte Cossar
      Freshie
      • Oct 2006
      • 2

      #32
      Originally posted by pooomba View Post
      The integrity of the editors, owners or whatever is somewhat irrelevant if the information is valid IMHO.
      Hello

      If anyone has any issues with my integrity, please contact my solicitors directly.

      Henry Chellew or Bruce Stainton
      Stainton & Chellew
      Barristers and Solicitors
      +64 (0)9 300 5852Fax: +64 (0)9 307 2093Address: Level 6 Guildford House, 2 Emily Place
      PO Box 989, Shortland St, Auckland. DX CP19023


      Yours sincerely,

      Charlotte Cossar

      Comment

      • matt004
        Freshie
        • Apr 2004
        • 73

        #33
        Really looking forward to the book!

        Comment

        • Dean@Massiveaction
          Giving life my best shot
          • Jun 2005
          • 5213

          #34
          Could be a great movie. "Trouble in the sandbox"

          Comment

          • Josko
            Fanatical
            • Dec 2004
            • 2075

            #35
            You've got a thing about opinions don't you Ivanhoe.

            This forum is all about the exchange of ideas, opinions and facts relating to the property investment industry.

            It relay irks me when positivists call for the magic wand to be waived over an issue when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion....

            Comment

            • Veronica Meadows
              Freshie
              • Aug 2006
              • 26

              #36
              Originally posted by Richmastery View Post
              Hi Gentlemen,

              Veronica - As far as we are aware the Receiver did not provide the database to all interested parties. Only the final party who purchased the magazine. For the Receiver to provide the database to all interested parties would:

              a) Devalue the saleability of the business
              b) Unfairly penalise the final purchaser of the magazine (which was NZ Property Magazine)

              We would doubt any sensible Receiver would do this as it does not act in the interests of the secured creditors like ourselves.

              Other Posters - As we have said earlier Mr Hows is great at making unfounded accusations in order to divert attention from the current real issues his creditors face.
              Amazing how quotes are edited after the fact - your original version was much better. But when you are caught out, you're caught out! It was up there long enough for most to see.

              Comment

              • Richmastery
                Opinionated
                • Jul 2005
                • 135

                #37
                Veronica,

                There was nothing to get caught out about. We provided the information that had been given to us by the Receiver and updated our post when we became aware of new information that had not been communicated to us by the Receiver.

                As a secured creditor we have had a steady stream of information from the Receiver and the "revelation" that he has sent the KPI database to numerous parties that have not purchased the magazine places the Receiver and KPI's final purchaser (NZ Property Mag) in a very compromising position.

                Comment

                • marcus freeboy
                  Freshie
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 3

                  #38
                  Nothing to get caught out about?

                  Originally posted by Richmastery View Post
                  Veronica,

                  There was nothing to get caught out about. We provided the information that had been given to us by the Receiver and updated our post when we became aware of new information that had not been communicated to us by the Receiver.

                  As a secured creditor we have had a steady stream of information from the Receiver and the "revelation" that he has sent the KPI database to numerous parties that have not purchased the magazine places the Receiver and KPI's final purchaser (NZ Property Mag) in a very compromising position.
                  Not caught out – I’m confused. First Richmastery says they have the database but won’t send it out because they are ethical. Then they say only NZ Property has it, then they say it has been sent out to all and sundry. How’s this not being caught out – the story keeps changing!

                  I’ve been looking at two or three threads over the last month or so now, and after removing the personal snipes and other sideshow waffle, this is what I think has gone on:

                  1) Company A buys a loan off company B’s employee.
                  2) Company A then uses this to put company B into receivership.
                  3) Company A appoints a receiver who then sends out company B’s database thereby devaluing company B.
                  4) Company A then puts in a low tender to acquire company B’s assets, but somehow Company C trumps Company A, while Company A personnel are winging their way to America.
                  5) Company A is now trying to make the deal fall over between Company C and the receiver - possibly.

                  Is this to try and once again pick up Company B’s assets at a bargain-basement price?

                  Comment

                  • Richmastery
                    Opinionated
                    • Jul 2005
                    • 135

                    #39
                    Marcus, Just to clarify:

                    a) We do not have the KPI database!
                    b) We do have the Richmastery database!

                    Our objection is that a stolen copy of the Richmastery database from 2004 when Hows was around has been used to promote his REI Mag.

                    We have detailed evidence of this which includes statements from Hows's own staff that have seen him use it.

                    Thats our issue pure and simple. I also think you'll find the KPI database which REI does not own and has no rights to, has also been used.

                    Also to clarify, we are VERY happy NZ Property Mag now owns KPI and if you read Phil's Blog you will see the actions we have taken assisted this outcome.
                    Last edited by Richmastery; 16-10-2006, 06:51 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Josko
                      Fanatical
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 2075

                      #40
                      Originally posted by marcus freeboy View Post
                      1) Company A buys a loan off company B’s employee.
                      2) Company A then uses this to put company B into receivership.
                      Originally posted by Richmastery
                      The natural laws of justice will ensure he reaps what he sows.
                      If this is how this business was closed down then I am pleased Richmastery recognises the law of natural justice.

                      Comment

                      • CJ
                        Fanatical
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 3570

                        #41
                        Ivi, that is how it works in the jungle.

                        Not sure why the receiver would give out the database thoughs. It would have been enough for them to say there was X unique names on it etc.

                        Not sure if they are using the richmastery database as I never got the invite

                        So is the e-magazine good?

                        Comment

                        • Josko
                          Fanatical
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 2075

                          #42
                          Originally posted by CJ View Post
                          Ivi, that is how it works in the jungle.
                          Sure CJ, (I have had some exposure to this type of behaviour), to purposely go out of you way to bring about the demise of another business simply lacks all integrity and seals my disrepute of such a person, a person who would intentionaly partake in such an activity would in my opinion be no worse then a crook and be very low on the intelligence front.


                          Law of the jungle indeed!
                          Last edited by Josko; 17-10-2006, 02:41 PM. Reason: Editing to tone down my repugnance for such actions...

                          Comment

                          • donna
                            Administrator
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 10069

                            #43
                            I suppose there is another way of looking at it - an investor due to loose all his investment ended up with some $$ back and let's not forget the business wouldn't have gone belly up by just that transaction alone if it wasn't in dire trouble in the first place. That transaction was only the straw that broke the camel's back. The business had been failing for some time!

                            Cheers,

                            Donna
                            Last edited by donna; 17-10-2006, 08:18 AM.
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                            Comment

                            • Richmastery
                              Opinionated
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 135

                              #44
                              Its commonsense!

                              Solvent Businesses which are not in default, do not go into Receivership.

                              The Receivers Report on Paper Ventures which can be viewed here says it all!

                              Over $600,000 of creditors lose. Over $900,000 lost in the liquidation of Momentum Magazine and Momentum Magazine Holdings. And these figures exclude shareholder funds that have been lost which are estimated to exceed $500,000!

                              As a property investor you have to ask yourself if a person who has had two failed businesses in the last 9 months and has had most of his personal properties sold at Mortgagee Sale and is facing bankruptcy is the right person to be publishing an online real estate magazine that teaches others how to generate wealth in real estate?

                              You draw your own conclusions...
                              Last edited by Richmastery; 17-10-2006, 08:26 AM.

                              Comment

                              • Josko
                                Fanatical
                                • Dec 2004
                                • 2075

                                #45
                                Originally posted by donna View Post
                                I suppose there is another way of looking at it - an investor due to loss all his investment ended up with some $$ back and let's not forget the business wouldn't have gone belly up by just that transaction alone if it wasn't in dire trouble in the first place. That transaction was only the straw that broke the camel's back. The business had been failing for some time!
                                Sorry Donna, are you talking about David Hows and his business, are you saying that Phil Jones purchased outstanding debt and then used that to appoint receivers to get some of that what was already a bad debt to wind the company down?

                                Comment

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