How do you tell someone that they are dirty?

[Glenn]

How do you tell someone that they are dirty?

I let a rather nice ownership style unit to a mature man who was recently separated. These types are usually well domesticated and have got over the silly behaviour that younger men suffer from. Unfortunately for the neighbours I was wrong and this man had lots of noisy visitors and made a nuisance of himself. The first inspection indicated that the property was not being looked after as well as we would like but not being damaged. The annoying behaviour continued and just as we were about to serve a 90-day termination notice the tenant gave notice. We visited the site after the tenant was due out and found it very dirty, carpet soiled, lots of rubbish and some personal goods left in the carport. I texted the tenant as I do in cases like this asking which of the goods were to be disposed of and which to store, pointing out storage costs $20 per day. The answer came back do not touch his stuff it would be gone by noon that day.
Well most was taken away and the next day I put the rest into my truck and headed off. That night I got an angry call from the tenant demanding his stuff back. I pointed out forcefully that the place was dirty and the carpets needed to be cleaned to remove the booze stains and something else causing flies to hover around. He placed the lady onto the phone who was the cleaner. She claimed to have spent 5 hours cleaning the flat. She claimed to have vacuumed the carpet and that was all the carpet needed. She had cleaned the top of the stove but had not lifted the top to clean up the muck that had dropped through the rings.
So I had a pleasant exchange of views with the tenant and the cleaner. I held nothing back calling them filthy rotten debtors who should know better. I eventually extracted an address from them where I could drop the abandoned goods. I just wonder. When that lady goes to the toilet does she run the vacuum over her hands to clean them?

[PC]

Do you have much luck getting cleaning costs off such people?

[Glenn]

Do you have much luck getting cleaning costs off such people?

Ha Ha ha
Do you really want to know that answer

[PC]

Some how I can guess!

I just love having to spend a day or three cleaning up someone else's mess.
Particularly when there's no come back or penalty to the perpetrators.

Oh well - raise the rent another $20pw - and find the next customer I guess.

[drelly]

I've never had any problem being awarded cleaning costs up to around $700 from tenants... some nice close up images of grease, food, spew and flie spots so dense it looks like paint seems to do the trick.

[Glenn]

Well for us if we can not get our money from the tenants we get it from the owner. Unfortunately the court will only let us charge the tenant $15 per hour without GST. Goodness I pay wages more than that plus holiday time and all that adding up to over $20 per hour.
I get penalised because we are the only PMs that do our own cleaning.
Goodness knows how the other PMs fill their day in.
Perhaps that is why their portfolios do not grow as fast as mine.
The only way to compensate the low rate is to escalate the hours and other costs.
Other management businesses pay contractors who can charge what they like and the courts do not dispute what rate they charge out.
In the end of the day I have to decide what is worth chasing.
A debt of say $200 or less is not worth enforcing unless I am very sure I will get the money.

[xris]

The below post of mine from the annoying habits thread probably better belongs here. Sorry mods for my sloppy editing and link providing.

xris

I have a question on all this.

Has anyone issued a 10 day notice on a family or mature group to clean up the house. I am refering to general dirt and grime not specific things like a filthy oven. I also am discluding younger student types.

I ask this because I have never done it for the simple reasons that 1/ it's never been that bad and 2/ I would find it difficult and have therefore shied away. (Effectively you are saying to a mature family NOT that you don't like the way they live, but that they are pigs.

I have had a few cases at the end of a tenancy where I have effectively done this with people and boy does the sh** hit the fan if they are 'normal' people, ie not low life, just dirty. Had an animal case recently where the huge breakdown in communication occured, not because I made an issue of the animal dirt and smell but because the female thought I was saying she had been bringing up her children in an unhygenic hovel.

So, who has done it?

"This house is filthy. Clean it up and stop living the way you do. I will come back to inspect in ten days".

xris

[Glenn]

You are right not the correct area. Somehow after you think about these things it is not really that funny.
Yes I have had more than my share of pigs.
I have recently had some success in dealing with this sort of thing, In a case of refugees not used to living in our society. They would not mow the lawns and let it get real bad. Also the bath became black.
So for two tenancies out of 12 of that ethnic group that I have as tenants I gave them a 90 day notice. Boy that got things moving. Their support people wheeled in and helped the poor families. Now all is sweet and I have withdrawn the notice.
However normally if I want a major cleanup as apposed to removing a car or gardens cleaned up etc they just get 90 days notice to terminate.
You can not turn a pig into a fairy.

[xris]

However normally if I want a major cleanup as apposed to removing a car or gardens cleaned up etc they just get 90 days notice to terminate.
You can not turn a pig into a fairy.

This would be my approach. When I get people like this I just accept that my unpleasant job begins when the tenancy ends because I know there is likely to be a TT hearing. It then becomes a matter of making sure the evidence is there and that I do things as by the book as I can.

I am very aware that I will have an uphill struggle if the tenants are 'normal' but dirty, and if they contest the claim.

If the tenants make a effort to clean up, such as a quick wipe down and the scrub up the shower but not the bath and basin, then it all becomes even more difficult to win a claim. for cleaning.

I sometimes get the impression that the TT adjudicators make a judgement on the people, not the facts. If they are basically honest and normal, enough so to turn up at the hearing at least then no order will be made against them. The fact that they were dirty and caused excessive wear and tear then becomes unimportant in the mind of the TT.

Tribunal discretion is alive and well.

xris

[jporteous]

Hi

I have a some tenants who are paying their rent on time, are not technically damaging the property but are pretty dirty. For example they are too lazy to carry the rubbish on bin day 30 metres to the side of the road - naturally after 1-2 weeks the rubbish begins to smell. Inside the flat it is pretty disgusting. And outside they have a habit of leaving their clothes to rot on the ground when the fall off the clothes line. I could go on!

I mow the lawns fortnightly so I have a chat to them when I see them. Friendly enough but no action. We just had there first inspection. Amazingly was pretty tidy for inspection. Following week back to old standards.

I admit there is no damage but my main concern is that we own a block of six flats. The rest are pretty tidy. This flat is at the front and my other tenants have to walk by. With the smell...

Do I give them a 90 day?? or can I take them to mediation.. Appreciate any ideas

Thanks Jon

[Glenn]

I admit there is no damage but my main concern is that we own a block of six flats. The rest are pretty tidy. This flat is at the front and my other tenants have to walk by. With the smell...

Do I give them a 90 day?? or can I take them to mediation.. Appreciate any ideas

I have this problem all the time.
Untidy is different from dirty.
Often if you leave the dirt there too long or wet clothes on the floor the property gets damaged. The smell gets into everything.
One solution is the up the rent to allow you plenty of money to do an upgrade when they go.
In your case deffinitely a 90 day notice.
Other wise the rest of the tenants will either start acting that way or that will be the only sort of tenants that will apply as the normal turn over of tenants occurs.