Go Winston, you rock..

[drelly]

I've never been a big fan of "affirmative action" but I do believe in helping people who are disadvantaged.

[eri]

agreed.......

[Perry]

There is no such thing as equal opportunity. That's the joke of that argument.

The equality of opportunity exists, no matter that the personal circumstances
of this or that individual make it difficult to avail themselves of it. You said:

There is no such thing as equal opportunity.

I disagree. But I accept your perspective that many will have great difficulty in
availing themselves of that equality of opportunity.

Seriously? You can't handicap some someone in a race and call it equal opportunity because the finish line is in the same place for both of them. That is absurd.

What a strawman logical fallacy. The race that
seemed to me to be on topic was ethnicity.

On that basis, let's take Eri's simple example
about a driver's licence and you tell us about
the handicap involved.

[drelly]

Is there some sort of issue around drivers licenses? Ok I'll play. Targeting an ethnic group is just an easy way to identify people who are likely disadvantaged. Is that what you're getting at? I'm not actually a fan of it because I think there are downsides to it but I see the reasoning.

[Perry]

What I'm "getting at" is that your unqualified comment:

There is no such thing as equal opportunity

is misleading at best, but more likely false.

[drelly]

What I'm "getting at" is that your unqualified comment:

is misleading at best, but more likely false.

The reason I said it is because no one starts at the same level of ability/means... so obvious, the opportunity is more difficult to achieve for some than others.

[eri]

that's a given

but what can you do about it?

it's harder for children to own homes than old people

should we try and correct that imbalance?

3 generation families, living under the 1 roof, are far more efficient, less a drain on the state etc

than 7? people living independently

should we encourage and support families living together with cash, rebates etc

or should we instead give the cash + rebates to the people living separately

and thereby discourage the very thing that is best for the country

should society favor the country - public prosperity/private poverty

or the citizen - public poverty/private prosperity

'cause no matter how much you want

you can't have your cake and eat it too

[speights boy]

^ Removing the financial incentive to have more kids while on a benefit would be a good start.

[eri]

food stamps that can't be redeemed at fast food shops a good idea

+ vege stamps that can only be redeemed at vege shops too

not hard to find; potatoes, onions + carrots for $7 per 10kg in auckland

ie $21 for 30kg of quality food!

probably 50% of what my family eats

kumara + fruit can be had for around $1/ kilo

[speights boy]

where the heck is kumara $1 per kilo for the average shopper ?

[Perry]

food stamps that can't be redeemed at fast food shops a good idea

+ vege stamps that can only be redeemed at vege shops too

Plus a thriving black market to go with them, too.

[eri]

go to the source

pukekohe vege shops

or if that's too far

avondale, and presumably otara, market

even onehunga + newmarket have a cheap vietnamese vege shops

certainly not countdown or even pak'n'save

[eri]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/10433202/Eat-well-without-breaking-the-bank

[elguapo]

food stamps that can't be redeemed at fast food shops a good idea
+ vege stamps that can only be redeemed at vege shops too

Great idea, you can start a trading market with food stamp. Buy food stamps off beneficiaries for 50c on the dollar and sell them to middle class organic shoppers at 80c in the dollar. Nice.

[Maccachic]

What about grow your own? Love the convenience of stepping out my door and getting fresh vegies and its really not labour intensive at all (at least not the way I do it).