Politics, Media and Colin Craig

[Wayne]

Glizzle #223 What has family got to do with marriage? absolutely everything! if there is no intention to form a family there is no marriage. it isn't a contract between two people it is the intention to create a unit and build a family around it.

Really?
So friends of mine who got married recently, who have a stated intention of remaining childless, are not really married at all. It is a sham?
How about people who marry after their child bearing years? Shame on them.

[speights boy]

Craig is speaking on behalf of many of the silent majority .

National Party surges while Labour flags

However, in terms of potential coalition partners for National, it was again a mixed story.

Colin Craig's Conservative Party, being groomed as a potential partner, has slipped again and in the space of a month has gone from 2.5% support to just 1%

[mrsaneperson]

drelly, more own goals there ..and the video link was mediocre,,

sb, you dont want to give your personal views to 3 simple questions on "same sex marriage" "anti-smacking bill" & "asset sales"..saying your views have no relevance..what a cop-out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..gutless wonder..

[speights boy]

Personal insults does your argument no favours.

My wish to see a vote on whether we introduce binding referendum; as opposed to having it forced upon us by a minor coalition partner has relevance.

Whether the State should own power stations or not does not alter my view on future binding referendum.

I do find it strange that someone can advocate "let the people decide", but then appear not to want to put it to a vote.
Then again, I have found many things within these 26 pages strange.

[John the builder]

to those de-cryers of marriage as the the basis of the family unit the exceptions (childless/aged) to the rule prove the rule. But if you get married with the intention of not having children then I question the validity of that marraige and ask why bother? A civlil union would have surficed

or is this all about having the outward signs of acceptance without the commitment and responsibility that it once brought?

[drelly]

drelly, more own goals there

Amazing comeback.

to those de-cryers of marriage as the the basis of the family unit the exceptions (childless/aged) to the rule prove the rule. But if you get married with the intention of not having children then I question the validity of that marraige and ask why bother? A civlil union would have surficed. or is this all about having the outward signs of acceptance without the commitment and responsibility that it once brought?

I don't suppose you've considered that your opinion on why people should get married is totally irrelevant to them?

[Wayne]

to those de-cryers of marriage as the the basis of the family unit the exceptions (childless/aged) to the rule prove the rule. But if you get married with the intention of not having children then I question the validity of that marraige and ask why bother? A civlil union would have surficed

or is this all about having the outward signs of acceptance without the commitment and responsibility that it once brought?

There are many people who do not get married but have children and those relationships have the same relevance under the law.

I don't see and have never seen anything to support the view marriage is an institution only for those who intend to raise a family.
I think that is something you made up to suit your views.

Why do people have to have such hard views - live and let live.

[donna]

Well i've read many sources that it was not "the norm" as you put it.Homosexuality was very much hidden even in the 50s , 60s & 70s..So why would it be normal way back when? "Norm" meaning "common" to me.It can be the "norm" sometimes in prisons but that is not a normal situation to be in. What book is it? Yes youre right about underage sex that happens openly legally today in many muslim countries with child brides. Are you proposing we should be adopting those traditions too?

Umm I am not proposing anything I just read a book! And where I said homosexuality I should have said 'bisexuality' was the norm in the early days (norm meaning common) as it was accepted that men could shag anything even when they had a wife.

Here's a link to the book on Amazon

cheers,

Donna

[Wayne]

Umm I am not proposing anything I just read a book! And where I said homosexuality I should have said 'bisexuality' was the norm in the early days (norm meaning common) as it was accepted that men could shag anything even when they had a wife.

Ahh - the good ol' days

[John the builder]

Drelly

I don't suppose you've considered that your opinion on why people should get married is totally irrelevant to them?

I accept that alot of perpole who get married have little understanding of what they are supoosed to be getting into and I know alot of people outside marriage who would be better if they did.

I appreciate that the contraceptive mentality now allows people to play mums and dads with no responsibility for their actions and to resort to abortion when the inevitable happens but that doesnt make for fullfilling relationships.

Marriage has declined in the last 100 years and every negative social indicator has risen you may think that is acceptable I say lets draw the line and reclaim the institution and at least raise expectations of what it is for.

Wayne;

There are many people who do not get married but have children and those relationships have the same relevance under the law

.

That is the whole point of this discussion redefining by 'the law' does not make it good or in the best interests of society, and especially children in those relationships. Read the studies above from Mrsaneperson.

[drelly]

I accept that alot of people who get married have little understanding of what they are supoosed to be getting into and I know alot of people outside marriage who would be better if they did. I appreciate that the contraceptive mentality now allows people to play mums and dads with no responsibility for their actions and to resort to abortion when the inevitable happens but that doesnt make for fullfilling relationships. Marriage has declined in the last 100 years and every negative social indicator has risen you may think that is acceptable I say lets draw the line and reclaim the institution and at least raise expectations of what it is for.

Oh give me a break!!! Firstly, you've completely ignored all the pointed comments regarding your total lack of marriage police status. It doesn't matter what you think people should get married for or how you think they should run their marriages. People make their own choices. I think most women would disagree that marriage was better 100 years ago when they were effectively housemaids, with no possibility to fulfil their ambitions or have a career. What they did have was the potential to birth many, many children at great risk to their health without much say in the matter. They then got to raise the children pretty much on their own. You sound like a Victorian male thinker with little understanding or regard for the woman's experience of marriage.

[John the builder]

Drelly;

and you think woman are better off now with so many woman abandoned by their partners and dependent on solo benifits and a society with so many fatherless children?

we reap what we sow.

[drelly]

Marriage has declined in the last 100 years and every negative social indicator has risen ...

Has it really? What's your source for this latest obviously wrong claim?

and you think woman are better off now with so many woman abandoned by their partners and dependent on solo benifits and a society with so many fatherless children?

women are not always victims. Many women with kids choose to leave bad or abusive relationships now because they are able to as we have these benefits to support them.

[John the builder]

Has it really? What's your source for this latest obviously wrong claim?

I can find the numbers do you need them?

rising divorce
Rising de factos
increasing unmarried mothers
teenage pregnancy
STD
rising fatherless children

and the nail in the coffin SS marriage

Drelly this discussion is about why marriage is important and the benefit of strong and enduring relationships. Your attempts to denigrate all marriage is a distraction from the good that marriage has done and the contribution it made that is now diminished by devaluing its role

No one says women (or men) should stay in abusive relationships but in many way abuse is another indicator at the denigration of marriage as especially men fail to protect their families and instead perpetrate violence.
I have two family members whose wives walked out on them and the men were bereft it affected their children, but the woman could do it because a welfare system gave them a lifestyle.

[Glizzle]

But John you have to be careful what you think is actually real and the cause to the issue.
Is the issue actually around marriage or just that the simple mum at home, dad working has changed drastically.
You may argue that Muslim family's have better statistics in the fields you listed, but then these next to no women rights.
You have to accept that marriage is going to change when we live in a world now where mothers also want to make something of there selves? are these people selfish? Maybe they are forced into it, these alot more dads bring kids up too is the flip side I guess?