Economics, Macro, Micro, Mining & Sustainability

[Davo36]

Link back to Life as a Landlord Thread

flyernzl, I agree with all the stuff you said in the first 2/3 of that post re government/council regulators etc.

But I don't agree that the solution is digging stuff up out of th eground and selling it. It's flawed thinking that so many people fall into. It's essentially throwing your furniture on the fire to keep yourself warm, works in the short term, but ultimately you're just using up capital.

We need sustainable businesses that can go on for century after century. Then we'd have a society that would last forever into the future.

[Keys]

Child porn, prostitution, drug abuse and gambling are businesses which are self sustaining and continue.

[Davo36]

Child porn, prostitution, drug abuse and gambling are businesses which are self sustaining and continue.

But surely not the only sustainable businesses in the world?

[Keys]

I would suggest that they have the longest history.

[speights boy]

Suggest large-scale mining as a solution to the endemic poverty in Northland and the protests will start immediately.

I'm not unhappy remaining a NIMBY protester.

If for no other reason than it seems to agitate people like Bob.

[Davo36]

I would suggest that they have the longest history.

But it makes no sense.

Amoeba and mould have an even longer history, what's your point?

[Keys]

My point is that there are many, many businesses which come and go. I don't recall one which does not cater to the four basic human needs, rather than wants, (sex, drugs, food, shelter) which is older than 400 years.

We need sustainable businesses that can go on for century after century

Mind you, that is just off of the top of my head without any research.

Can you give some examples?

[Davo36]

Ummmm, you're sort of setting up straw men arguments, doesn't make a lot of sense. Still not sure what point you are trying to make? That there are not many long term sustainable businesses?

Construction
Law
Grave digging
Food production i.e. farming of all types
Mathematics and other sciences
Healthcare, doctors, nursing etc.
Teaching
Sailing ships
Trading goods
Making boats
Chopping firewood
Blacksmith
Weapons makers
Pottery
Arts
Music


And a gazillion other things.

There are many many things that can be done on a sustainable basis. And after all, what other choices do we have? Burn through the planet's resources faster than we replace them? Just kinda hope technology will fix it? Or we'll find another planet? And set about wrecking that one too?

[Tantalus]

Wealth comes from primary production, that is mining agriculture forestry etc and the downstream manufacturing resulting from that. It does not spring, miraculously from taking in each others washing.

[Davo36]

Wealth comes from primary production, that is mining agriculture forestry etc and the downstream manufacturing resulting from that. It does not spring, miraculously from taking in each others washing.

Oh, you must be living in the 1930s. You didn't list software? Never heard of it? It's funny little electron things running about.

But don't worry, just dig another hole mate, that shiny yellow metal will make it all better.

[Perry]

I've yet to see anyone eat software, David.

Tantalus' point is valid, as all post-primary pro-
duction is an extension of primary production.
Food, clothing, shelter, etc are primary needs.
Everything else is founded on the lower levels
of the pyramid of needs.



No base layer: no upper layers.

[flyernzl]

It's essentially throwing your furniture on the fire to keep yourself warm, works in the short term, but ultimately you're just using up capital.

Ponder this:

Lets say you win Lotto. The man gives you 11mil. So you now need to make choices.

Do you

(a) Take the money, lock it up in a safe deposit box and never touch it.
Continue in your current job as a night-time shelf packer on a minimum wage at Countdown driving your Morris Minor and getting all your clothes from the Salvation Army shop.

or

(b) Use a couple of mil of the money to set yourself up with a nice house in good location, get yourself a new Mercedes to drive around in, and indulge in a few new toys (boat, plane, golf clubs) to keep you amused. After shouting yourself a luxury round-the-world trip you invest the rest of the money in a variety of property, shares and fixed-interest investments that will keep you, your family, and your descendents warm and comfortable for the future.

I would suggest that if you choose (a) most people would think you were a bit strange.

So why should a country that has similar options available also not make similar choices?

[speights boy]

Flyernzl:
So, you believe NZ will reap the vast majority of financial benefits ?

What chance do you put on NZ being in recession this year or next?
What chance do you put on Australia being in recession this year or next ?

Do you fully support Anadarko and their deep sea drilling off NZ ?

PS: Mods.
My suggestion would be to move this part of flyer's party political broadcast to the Greenpeace thread.

[Leftette]

There's a Greenpeace thread!!!???

[speights boy]

Indeed Leftie.
Largely dominated recently by a resurrected discussion on homosexuality (going nowhere as in the past); but thought mining and deep sea drilling would fit better there.