How do I get bad tenants out fast

[alsace]

How about working out how much it is likely to cost you in lost rent etc., pay them a visit and offer a cash inducement to be paid when the property has been vacated and the keys returned? Although it goes against the grain it could be a lot cheaper in the long run. It could work this close to Christmas.

[xris]

Hello Perry,

First you talk about the electricity supply company and then talk about WINZ as if they were the same thing. Last I heard they are different entities. What or who exactly are you talking about? Without knowing there can be no meaningful discussion.

[Perry]

Hello Perry,

First you talk about the electricity supply company and then talk about WINZ as if they were the same thing. Last I heard they are different entities. What or who exactly are you talking about? Without knowing there can be no meaningful discussion.

Sorry to be rather enigmatic.

The 'principle' of business. Letting one vendor (benefits
or electricity or anything else) know that a client is, or
may be, a credit risk. I've done this in other business areas
and it's akin to networking. And it's usually very appreciated
when another business-person is made aware of increased
risk of non-payment by a client.

Is that explanation more helpful?

[manic_mansions]

turning off the water is asking for trouble

its better to just take your rage out on a bean bag at home. You might get a call from the tenants late at night saying:

"Hey there was a fire here, we tried to put it out but we had no water, now the whole bedroom is gutted".

A number of tenants are just taking a break from prison and couldn't care less about the law.

The tenant who threatened to trash my place for example, told me on the phone that he had no previous convictions for wilful damage and therefore would only cop a fine or community service -and he had no fear of either. Thing was, it was around this time the owner called me and asked me to measure the area of this tenant's dwelling as he didn't have it insured yet!

[xris]

manic,

Could you please clarify one point

These properties you refer to which you manage, are they yours or do you manage them and receive a fee from other people?

xris

[manic_mansions]

xris

The owner owns the properties. I manage them.

[xris]

Hello Perry,

I have now re-read your previous posts and do not really know where to start on this one, if it is really worth spending much time replying anyway. Your comments are full of illogic, ignorance of basic principles, unfounded assumptions about your own importance, and a fair splattering of risky advice. You make it sound as if you are a lawyer, an experienced landlord and a high-powered, jet-setting businessman all rolled into one. (Oh, and an expert on the inner workings and thought processes of WINZ and power companies, too.) I doubt you are any of these.

Do you really believe that the power companies will disconnect their clients supply based on the phone comments they receive from you, an unknown third party? And do you make a habit of tossing around personal information about your tenants to all and sundry and believe that this will not, at some future time, be likely to land you in legal trouble? And can you seriously believe that it is alright to disconnect a tenant’s water supply so long as you do not tell them the real reason for doing that? And do you also think that WINZ officers are at your beck and call, ready to jump when you say jump. I could go on, but I think I have probably said enough.

You originally threw in the idea of phoning a power company to tell them that your tenant – their client – owed you rent, and that this might have some sort of beneficial effect for you, the landlord. It is, as I said, an idea worth raising, but that is about as far as it goes.

xris

[xris]

Hello manic,

Thank you for your answer. I am a little puzzled. I am trying to work out your situation. As they are not yours, I am assuming that you are looking after these rentals for a friend or relative, probably as a favour, because a professional property manager would/should not get into this mess.

I am curious to know why you knowingly accept criminals as tenants. If you do that you cannot expect anything better than criminal behaviour from them. You say that nobody else will rent the properties. I simply do not believe that. If they are in need of a lot of TLC then get the owner to spend money on maintenance or else stop managing them for him. (Hence my above comment that I assume you are managing them for a friend).

I am making a few assumptions here, some or all of which may be wrong. As I said, I am a little puzzled. Maybe you would like to add some further comments of your own.

xris

[manic_mansions]

yes you are pretty well bang on, i'm managing them for a friend. I'm not sure a professional manager would even take these properties on, as they are such hard work.

It was a theatrical exaggeration to say only criminals are interested in the places. It would be more accurate to say about 50% of prospects are criminally inclined. As its now summer, i have got some good quality tenants. Over winter i had to take what i could get.

The places could do with masses of TLC, years upon years of income from each place could be diverted into their rotting timbers alone. But then mortgages and rates and insurances would get angry. So a bit of jif and an occasional window clean is all i can offer.

It seems as though my nine months has given me a similar repertoire of horror stories as PMs with years and years on the job. I read about 90 day notices for instance. That is a magical dreamland to me. I can't imagine having so few problems with tenants that all i could do with ones i didn't like was give them 90 days notice. Normally, five weeks after they've moved in they are three weeks in arrears.

Now that its summer and theres healthy demand, i find the job quite enjoyable.

[Perry]

I have now re-read your previous posts and
do not really know where to start on this one, if it is really
worth spending much time replying anyway. Your
comments are full of illogic, ignorance of basic principles,
unfounded assumptions about your own importance, and a
fair splattering of risky advice. You make it sound as if you
are a lawyer, an experienced landlord and a high-powered,
jet-setting businessman all rolled into one. (Oh, and an
expert on the inner workings and thought processes of
WINZ and power companies, too.) I doubt you are any of
these.

Despite being presumptions, a few of your doubts are
accurate . . . Ad hominem remarks excepted.

Do you really believe that the power
companies will disconnect their clients supply based on the
phone comments they receive from you, an unknown third
party? And do you make a habit of tossing around personal
information about your tenants to all and sundry and believe
that this will not, at some future time, be likely to land you
in legal trouble? And can you seriously believe that it is
alright to disconnect a tenant's water supply so long as you
do not tell them the real reason for doing that? And do you
also think that WINZ officers are at your beck and call,
ready to jump when you say jump. I could go on, but I think
I have probably said enough.

Communication of defaulting debtors details goes on all the
time; it is not regarded as personal information. Most tenancy
applications contain a proviso about credit & reference checks.
I neither said nor suggested anything like your assertions.
I said that telling another business that you have a common
customer who is proving a delinquent debtor can be helpful. It's
simply a report on creditworthiness. Or the lack thereof. It
usually results in faster than normal follow-up and closer
attention by the supplier to the debtor. This increases
pressure on the debtor. This may help the owner be rid of
the defaulting tenants sooner.

Likewise, when a WINZ case officer has information that
appears to confirm that an accommodation supplement
being paid to a beneficiary is not being passed on to the
rental owner, (as it should be), certain actions will ordinarily
follow: usually suspension of the benefit. And a "please explain"
question to the beneficiary. (I presume you aren't endorsing
benefit fraud).

The poster said that the water supply was disconnected to
remedy a fault. "Got a plumber to disconnect the water feed
to the house to replace the rusty supply pipe." I saw no other
words that would produce any other view.

[Hound]

I've been a landlord for around sixteen years, & I'm with Perry on this one. Exchanges of information occur all the time. In fact it works both ways, I've had an old associate who works in the public sector call me re accommodation supplement being claimed on on one of our properties etc. I guess if the client is suspect it goes on their file & WINZ staff follow up subsequent requests if they are able & good on them. These are working people who dislike fraud just like us.

As far as electricity companies are concerned, one of our local providers don't require any I/D when starting an a/c. So habitual fraudsters use an alias, to avoid having to pay. Usually they have moved on by the time it has become an issue anyway.

So, Xris, let me guess. Your'e formerly or are currently a public servant?

[Aston]

DO NOT CUT THE WATER OFF!!!!! ............... Illegal.


Aston

[grumpy11]

It surprises me that the tenant can stay in my house, for which I pay the mortgage. The tenant pays no rent,no watercost and he is possibly damaging the place,
and here I am the one that has to be careful not to get under the tenants skin, the one which does not respect my property or comittments.
If on the other side of the equation:
- I do not pay the water to council, it gets disconnected, ( but the tenant has not paid me his share of water either).
- Furthermnore if I do not pay for the mortgage, the house gets taken by the bank...
- if i do not pay the rates, I get wound up by the council
- if I do not pay the tax on the rental income I get busted by the IRD.
Looks to me very much like there are once again a bunch of rules made for the bludgers of societey without any consideration for the providers and risktakers.
Maybe this is whats actually wrong, you guys all want to be so correct and accept all the rules and regulations which are put on you, without taking the chance and stand up for what you believe to be your rights!
I work, pay my taxes and do not cause any trouble in society, but on this issue I am prepared to fight for my rights to the wire.
I believe that all the rental property owners in NZ should get themselves organised and get some decent and workable laws into place so that the bludgers and thugs out there will not get the better of us as well as the state.
Imagine if there are say 100'000 rental property owners in NZ and they were to agree on say paying $100.- each per year for legal fees to arrange some proper laws which will protect us as well and not only the tenant.
This would give a handsome sum of money and 10 Million Dollars per year should be able to create some pressure to get some decent and fair laws into place.
In my opinion there is no difference between a thief taking goods from a shop or a tenant not paying his rent. In my opinion this is simply theft........
And of course the police does not want anything to do with it, it is a civil matter. Lets see if the police will come to get the water back on or if this is also a civil matter ( my guess because they need to protect these bums it will be a police matter).
The plumber does not work in the weekend apparently and the pipes are very long and not yet replaced over the full length.
--Which ever way I turn it seems that the people trying to be fair and obey the rules get done and the others which are totally unfair and unreasonable have the full protection of the state, even so they do not seem to be afraid to use violence to make their point. Lack of education or breading or a bad childhood is in my opinion no excuse for not paying the rent, cause damages or threaten etc.
Sorry guys I will ride this one out and then fight what ever the consequences are, I think it is time someone makes a start and fights against this total injustice against landlords. Maybe if I get pushed hard enough I might even consider to get a Landlords tribunal together which based on the capital which is invested in rental properties out there, this could be a real problem for the tenancy tribunal or maybe just abit of tough competition.

[xris]

Hello grumpy,

Well well, what a outpouring of emotion. Even my monitor is shedding tears. How about this for a reply. I await a response with baited breath.

Landlords are in business. One aspect of being in business is that you take, and accept, risk. No risk, no profit. And the profit can be considerable.

The rules and laws regarding rental properties are clearly defined and are there for the benefit of everybody. Naturally, some laws do not work properly or are outdated. These need to be amended, changed or abolished. There are procedures for doing this. However, these problem laws are in the minority. On the whole the system works well.

Some considerations to bear in mind are:

The landlord is in business: the tenant is not. It is therefore only fair that greater expectation of professionalism is placed on the landlord. This leads to an apparent imbalance in the rules.

It is easy to become a landlord, without any real understanding of what that entails. Among other things it entails responsibility - including responsibility for knowing what you are doing.

To pick up on one point you make: the tenant does not need to care one jot about your mortgage or all the effort you put into managing the property, or the cost of the new paint job, or whatever else. He needs only care about his responsibilities to you in law. By meeting those responsibilities he is absolving himself of all other worries regarding his home - your rental property.

If the tenant does not live up to his responsibilities, for example not paying the rent on time, then you as the landlord have clearly defined remedies. A lot of landlords do not know what these are or how to use them properly. This often leads to further problems because the first problem just gets worse. This is usually when all the ranting and raving starts from the landlord. But whose fault is this? The landlord’s of course, for not doing things properly in the first place, and again by not doing things properly once matters begin spiralling out of control.

There are problems with the system which need to be put right. One of those problems is landlords who do not know what they are doing. They are quite rightly treated harshly by the courts and often leave the rental business having lost a lot of money and feeling that they have just gone through ten rounds with Mike Tyson.

Kind regards,

xris

[RentMaster]

Hi Grumpy.

I do not pay the water to council, it gets disconnected, ( but the tenant has not paid me his share of water either).

If the tenancy agreement says the water is to be paid by the tenant, then you dont need to pay the council. It is the tenants responsibility to pay the council. If the tenant does not pay, then the water gets disconnected, and it is the tenant that suffers. This one you can quite easily pass back to the tenant. Just dont pay the water rates for them.

You also mention that there should be an organisation which looks after landlords and lobbies the government for rule changes to help landlords. This is exactly what the NZPIF does. Are you a member of your local property investors association? They are probably the strongest voice in New Zealand for landlords rights. The more that join, the more power they get.