Want to break your fixed term tenancy with Glenn?

[Perry]

Maybe the clue is here?

Any provision in a tenancy agreement to the effect that, on breach by the tenant
of any term of the agreement or of any of the provisions of this Act or of any other
enactment, the tenant shall be liable to pay.

Perhaps Glenn's provision is phrased (with TT guidance) to ensure that it is worded
such that a breach is not what's involved? I.e.
if you do this you'll get such-and-such a reward not being anything to do with rent
as opposed to
if you don't do this you'll get such-and-such a penalty

That might get around:

(2) Any provision in a tenancy agreement to the effect that, if the tenant does not
breach any term of the agreement or any of the provisions of this Act or of any other
enactment, the rent shall or may be reduced or the tenant shall or may be granted
or paid a rebate, refund, or other benefit, shall be construed as entitling the tenant
to that reduction, rebate, refund, or other benefit in any event

. . . in that "rebate, refund, or other benefit" relates to rent relief, not some other
fee 'external' to rent?

Interesting to ponder on how the TT folks get around/justify it all.

[Glenn]

I did have a few micro seconds of doubt. I did wonder but letting fees are inshrined in legislation.
They are no longer for the sole use of a privaledged minority of landlords that being the old members of MREINZ.
The various prohibitions are excluded under section 17 (4). In particular any fee (not just letting fees) or other charge for services rendered by a letting agent relating to the grant or assignment of the tenenacy. Letting agents are further described as those people who offer themselves out for reward letting properties.


Like a lot of law it is about repeatability. Obviously if it gets abused then there will be a problem and a crack down.

[Maccachic]

I remember speaking to a guy once who has a deal with his tenants that he keeps 10% of their rent aside and if when they leave he deems the place to have been left in good condition he will refund them the 10%. I believe he had long term tenants and the tennets would also try to stay with him if they could ie. switch to another of his properties.

Is this legal?

[Keys]

Nope. (MAMC)

[Maccachic]

Didn't think so.

[Perry]

I wonder just what the 10 per cent
would mount up to over the years?

[glamourpuss]

Just had a point I needed some clarification and was wondering if I could ask Glenn his approach.

Currently dealing with a tenant who is 3 weeks into a 1 yr FTT and has fallen in love with a man in Nelson and has advised me her fortunate change in circumstances means she will be moving out at Easter.

I have agreed that she can break her FTT as long as letting costs covered and she pays rent until new tenancy in place. She verbally agreed to this and I have asked for her to put this in writing. (Haven't received as yet).

Then she didn't pay her rent when it was due last week....

I have served her a 14 day notice for rent arrears

I am wondering when is the best time to apply to TT - should I get a rent arrears application in now while I still know her address or should I sit tight a couple of weeks with a view to going to the TT with a larger claim once I have found a new tenant (getting her to pick up the rent until new tenancy begins/letting costs/cleaning costs).

Would be interested in your opinion given your experience in these matters.

NB She is currently a licensed real estate agent so I should have a good chance of getting an address for her once she moves on if she doesn't give me one.

Must add I didn't see this one coming - I think being in love has affected her judgment - will screen for this on my tenancy applications in future ;-)

Currently I am trying to keep communication channels open and she is cooperative in allowing me to show people the property - working on the angle that it is in both our interests - but I just don't trust her and would like to have ducks in a row if it goes pear shaped.

Thanks

[Glenn]

Just had a point I needed some clarification and was wondering if I could ask Glenn his approach.

That is a very good question.
Firstly I must add that not all men in Nelson are great lovers who attract tenants away from their landlords!
You have more than one issue to deal with here. Take note Real Estate agents are a special breed of tenant. They can cause a bit of a problem when the pressure goes on.

So to the question. The answer lies with the way the Tenancy Adjudicators deal with the application.
I have tried several ways and had a variety of failures!
One clue you have already noted is the tenant has stopped paying thinking that she will avoid loosing her bond by not paying any more rent.
To be honest issuing a 14 day notice at this stage is not a lot of use. Many tenants think you will apply to the tribunal under section 56. If you do that you loose because the court will give you want you ask for and that is possession. Once that happens rent liability stops.
I think with fast talking tenants in these cases it is better to put in writing what is going to happen.
You have got it more or less figured. You keep marketing the house until you find a tenant, being very careful to avoid giving any indication that you have "taken possession".
You take possession when you verbally agree that the tenancy has ended and you do some cleaning up. So unless there are piles of rubbish or something there that will stop you letting it. Even if it sits empty for a while keep acting as if the tenant is still in possession. For instance you could keep issuing warning notices about non payment of rent each week. You could issue notices about showing people through. Issue notices in writing about doing an inspection. Proof is what it is all about. You have to prove in court that the tenancy is still in place. Then once a new tenant has been found rush in and do the final between tenant cleaning.
On no account should you file for the bond refund even if the tenant has signed it off to you. That is a sure sign you have agreed for the tenancy to end.
Once the new tenancy commences then file your application asking for costs of advertising, inspection fees, and what ever you can think of.
The court unfairly does not normally allow you to claim your time for marketing it. In that application ask then for the bond to be awarded to you even if the tenant has already signed a releasal. Make the court do it. That way you have the court judgement in your hand saying what happened to the bond.
Once you have the court order the real fun starts.
With a new lover you might have a new source of money but more likely you will just have two people to argue with.

[Keys]

And, should this take more than two months Glenn?

How have you managed that particular problem?

[Glenn]

And, should this take more than two months Glenn?

How have you managed that particular problem?

Some one else's deep pockets.
Everyone wants instant justice with a judgement going their way.
The best trophies are the ones you quietly and patiently stalk.

[Keys]

I'm referring to the need to make an application within two months from the end of the tenancy (yes, I know - it hasn't actually ended).

[Glenn]

I'm referring to the need to make an application within two months from the end of the tenancy (yes, I know - it hasn't actually ended).

Yes the two month devil.
As they say the devil is in the detail.
I have had one application thrown out due to being over two months. I have DBH talking at Nelson PIA on the 10 April. That is one of the questions I have asked them to comment on.
My spies in the castle tell me that they have an answer that will parry my sabre thrust. (anyone who can figure out what that statement means is welcome to attend to see if they can untie the mythological knot)
My case was one of those that we just had to write off the debt. We were trying to grab the bond that got left behind. Now the gubby government has it for themselves instead of the greedy landlords. My solution in such disappointing outcomes is to go out there and take the money off some other innocent tenant as a general warning to others!
Just kidding folks!!
There are far to many landlords who get stuck on failure number one and never move on to make a killing at the next case.

[Keys]

Yes the two month devil.
As they say the devil is in the detail.

Then you will find 91A (2d) to your advantage.

There is no time limit on it. Put it in your application form and follow through with it in your tenancy agreement.

[Glenn]

Then you will find 91A (2d) to your advantage.

There is no time limit on it. Put it in your application form and follow through with it in your tenancy agreement.

Yes perhaps I should get that detail onto my tenancy agreements. Of course if I charm the court staff I might get away with it via 91B.
I do actually collect next of kin. I wonder if that name (next of kin) could be counted as person. I guess a few more words on the application form is the trick.
Goodness so many things to trip up on and lots to get away with.

[NIK]

Well the above situation sounds just like what we have been through.
Had the TT last week, was granted immediate possession (but on top of stopping the rent payments the tenant also did a runner..) but was advised I can come back and claim the rent up till the property is re-let.
I was also awarded exemplary damages - $ 500 (thank you Keys). Of course gettting this money is another matter.
But you stand a good chance because the rent is in arrears - that was the key point the adjudicator noted that in cases of FTT when the tenant wants to break the lease a strong message needs to be sent if the rent is in arrears. You can also claim the cost of re-letting, so advertising costs, travel costs, credit check costs, or cost of pm fees....plus rent up until the property is re let.
I issued a 14 day notice when rent was in arrears and also applied to TT immediately (still took over 6 weeks to get hearing and that was under 'urgency').
The tenant's liability for rent did not end with being granted immediate possession, but the order only awarded the $ up to that date + instruction to come back once the property is re-let and the 'outstanding' amount of rent is known.