A Caravan in a Commercial Building

[Perry]

A person wants to rent a small workshop to live in his caravan parked therein, as well as it providing a place for his tools and allow him to get his car under cover and off the street. What are the RTA implications, if any?

The workshop has a few facilities like a small smoko area with a bench top, toilet, washtub and even a shower, so it's likely the caravan would become a bedsit.

Despite the mention of tools, he's retired, so will not be trading in or out of the building.

[Davo36]

I'd say you need a lease in place (not RTA right?) that states no one can live there.

Then he can't come back and try to claim it as a residence because he's been living there.

[Perry]

I'd say you need a lease in place (not RTA right?) that states no one can live there.

Then he can't come back and try to claim it as a residence because he's been living there.

The problem I see with that is some legal doctrine that goes: acceptance of the existence of a contract can be implied from the conduct of the parties. So the LL would have to never witness the caravan in situ, or it could be said that the LL accepted the circumstances, once having seen the situation and continuing to accept the rent payt with no Notice to rectify.

[flyernzl]

Quite common in the aviation world. Rent/own a hangar and live in a caravan inside it, right alongside your pride and joy (the aeroplane I mean!).

[Davo36]

The problem I see with that is some legal doctrine that goes: acceptance of the existence of a contract can be implied from the conduct of the parties. So the LL would have to never witness the caravan in situ, or it could be said that the LL accepted the circumstances, once having seen the situation and continuing to accept the rent payt with no Notice to rectify.

Which is why you ahve the contract worded the way I said, so there's no confusion. You might well have seen a caravan, but this is what the premises are for - for the storage of a caravan and vehicle and for him to do various works with tools etc.

[John the builder]

what about making it 90day lease so he has to technically leave at the end oof each renewal? than it is temporary. The caravan is not then a building?

[Perry]

I agree about the contract, David. However, one cannot contract out of the RTA. (Sections 4 & 11)

But section 5 includes: [Act excluded in certain cases] This Act shall not apply where the premises are commercial premises.

A (sort-of) test case that I'm aware of that confirmed that the RTA did not apply related to the tenant using the premises as a place of business, as well as kipping down there. That was after the tenant had sought to claim that the RTA applied. I say 'sort-of' because the TT declined jurisdiction, so there was never any hearing.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

@Perry -

"Don't ask, don't tell" would be my advice.

It's the sort of thing I would look at doing (as a tenant) and at the end of the day, do you want your place occupied? Commercial properties are a plentiful.

[Beano]

I agree about the contract, David. However, one cannot contract out of the RTA. (Sections 4 & 11)

But section 5 includes: [Act excluded in certain cases] This Act shall not apply where the premises are commercial premises.

A (sort-of) test case that I'm aware of that confirmed that the RTA did not apply related to the tenant using the premises as a place of business, as well as kipping down there. That was after the tenant had sought to claim that the RTA applied. I say 'sort-of' because the TT declined jurisdiction, so there was never any hearing.

I had a similar situation
Commercial tenant decided to live there
Council discovered it
Council said he must go
Tenant claimed he was covered under the RTA
Called police to evict
Originally the tenancy protection association told police you can't evict. ..covered under RTA
But we told Tenancy Protection
He was in commercial premise
Council said he had to go
Rent in arrears
They re-spoke to the Police and said he must go immediately

[Perry]

Like so many such things, if everything is going along smoothly, then things are quiet and people are happy. But when some party-or-other, be it LL, tenant, neighbour, council, do-gooder group or whatever get their nickers in a twist over something, that's when things get awkward.

[flyernzl]

What would be in insurance situation, in the event of a claim?

[Perry]

Would that not depend on the policy wording?

As someone observed earlier, the premises are being used to store a caravan. It's just that the caravan is being used to store a person.

[Perry]

Re-visting this what-if scenario with a tweak.

The caravan is out in the yard. I suspect just for use as a bedroom and the workshop is being used to work in, cook in and use the toilet and ablutions.

[Davo36]

Re-visting this what-if scenario with a tweak.

The caravan is out in the yard. I suspect just for use as a bedroom and the workshop is being used to work in, cook in and use the toilet and ablutions.

Is this something you are considering, or is happening now?

[Perry]

It's happening, now. The caravan is impossible to see from the road, so there should be no bureaucrat problems. The tenant is happy; I am happy. But we all know that if things go bad, and goodwill evaporates, that's when the nuances of a lease / TA become important.