Meth or P related - it goes here, please.

[Don't believe the Hype]

Thanks keys but I don't need luck... Luck is not a business strategy. The clause I suggested makes up only part of the risk management strategy we apply to our property business.

[PTWhatAGreatForum]

I'm caught between thinking it is exaggerated by business self interest and the fact it's obviously a problem in some sectors. Have to pay out another $60 a month to these parasites*? Why bother being a rental landlord?

I'm leaning towards getting a place which I can afford to carry while I wait for a "good" tenant.

*I'm not too keen on having "meth minder" (etc) as my largest "utility" bill every month.

[Keys]

i have a clause in my rental agreements to advise tenants that we reserve the right to enter the property to p test throughout the tenancy.

So, you use your right of entry pursuant to Section 48 inspections?

[Glenn]

I put one of my comments on the stuff site re meth contamination. The commentators are having a field day. The message is getting through to people and they do not like it. Most are in denial.

[eri]

[Wayne]

I'm leaning towards getting a place which I can afford to carry while I wait for a "good" tenant.

Knowing they are 'good' can be tricky.
Not all P users have a sign on their forehead.

[wemoon]

Just done a course for testing - this is an unseen TIME BOMB - the company has done approx 5500 tests with 40% showing positive. Why play Russian Roulette with this - TEST TEST TEST - because serious contamination may result in the worst case destruction of the property. It may even negate insurance if testing is not done. My wife and I run a P M company and if our Owners don't want it tested then practically we don't want their business - the responsibility and liability is potentially huge.

[Keys]

Who ran the course? ^^^

[Glenn]

One of the problems for property managers is there are two liable landlords for every tenancy.
That is the owner and the owners agent (property manager).
Many firms refuse to even put their name on a tenancy agreement and just put the owners name.
Because of the way the RTA is written this does not remove the PM from the liability that might be imposed.
I have been assured by Tenancy Services that the courts will determine which of the two parties will be regarded as the one that owes the tenant.
The reality I have been in front of both the tribunal and associated district court in a tenant instigated appeal is the courts take absolutely no notice of what was on the tenancy agreement or even if it is a cross application on the name of the landlord. They will ping the PM in most cases because they can not avoid paying the fine unlike an owner who can disappear overseas or off into a marriage etc.
The other problem is the tenancy adjudicators are not scientifically trained. So tenants can do all the sobbing and finger pointing without any clear cross examinable evidence from a medical expert. The landlord can point to written documentation refuting the sob story but the legally but not technically trained adjudicators will go with the sob story.
The other problem we have is the meth cleaning industry are fighting each other with greater and greater stories of horror. The horror being the costs that insurance companies are paying them for bigger and bigger porkies.
Like I ask you all. How many people even understand what a half micro gram of meth per 100 sq cm represents. How many nice property mangers understand what 10 to the minus 6 means.

[Keys]

I attended a one day P testing course this week. .....................

Have you got your certificate or invoice yet Glenn?

I have the invoice and am off to the course this Thursday.

[Glenn]

Have you got your certificate or invoice yet Glenn?

I have the invoice and am off to the course this Thursday.

Yes sure have. Lovely switched on lady.
Of course I am so ignorant of so many things in this world I just wonder if the other people who do all this income generating testing are either more stupid than me or smarter.
Why would I want to spend $1000 for a cross contaminated inferior test that I can do myself for $20.
How I wonder will I make the adjudicator believe me over someone who wears a ghost busters outfit.
I am already practicing a long rambling mathematical explanation of what 0.5 Microgram from 100sq cm means, that I will vomit out into a court room of unsuspecting participants.
This of course will be pitched at an adjudicator who describes herself as technologically challenged.
Aha but tempered with all this preparation is the other side of the coin. I have not made one application to the tribunal in the last 12 months.
On that issue did I post my tenancy agreement clauses on Meth?

[Keys]

On that issue did I post my tenancy agreement clauses on Meth?

Don't recall seeing it.

Here's my one:

Meth-Amphetamine, also known as "P”

The landlord has presumptively tested this property for “P” and found no residue.The landlord may test for “P” during your stay and any positive results will befollowed by a further, more accurate test. A positive result in that test willbe forwarded to the NZ Police and an application to terminate the tenancy willbe made under Section 55 (1b) of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 ANDwe will be claiming clean up costs.

[Glenn]

Don't recall seeing it.

Here's my one:

Meth-Amphetamine, also known as "P”

The landlord has presumptively tested this property for “P” and found no residue.The landlord may test for “P” during your stay and any positive results will befollowed by a further, more accurate test. A positive result in that test willbe forwarded to the NZ Police and an application to terminate the tenancy willbe made under Section 55 (1b) of the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 ANDwe will be claiming clean up costs.

I am sure mine is much better! I have discussed with Tenancy Services and they have sort of given it a seal of approval,.

I make the tenants initial this clause. "8 It is acknowledgedthat this property has been tested for methamphetamine contamination and foundclean."
Then in the special conditions section I have this clause. "At the end of a tenancy the property willbe tested for Meth again and if a positive is found the tenant will be liablefor further testing and cleaning costs. This is necessary in order to carry outreasonable cleaning."


In my untested opinion the key to the process is to lock in who pays for the more expensive testing. I have slipped in the word "reasonable" because "reasonable" is the level of cleaning that the RTA provides for a TENANT to do as apposed the requirement the RTA implies a LANDLORD must do.
I have sat in front of a tenancy adjudicator with a damaged stove element completely covered in cannabis oil and the tenants have said. I know nothing. I did not do it. The adjudicator has sweetly said she does not know what cannabis oil on an element looks like. My temperature rose and I said loudly waving the element at her. Well look at this element Mam. This is what oil looks like.
Case dismissed not proven she croaks.
Just as well they have free tissues available in the court room.

[Keys]

^^ I like the "reasonable cleaning" phrase.

Since you have completed the "P" testing course, do you include a meth test report in the TA? Otherwise, how can you prove that the property was clean at the start of the tenancy?

[PC]

Can anyone provide a link to one of theses meth testing training courses?
And a supplier of the d.i.y test kits?

Thanks.