Meth or P related - it goes here, please.

[Anthonyacat]

The problem is you are trying to make money using deceit.
You ignore the scientific evidence which indicates there is no harm in living in a property where meth has been smoked.
Instead you spread scary stories about babies on contaminated carpet trying to tug the heartstrings of vulnerable people so you can scam them for unnecessary meth cleanup work.
You are similar to the old rouges peddling snake oil.
You appear to have no ethics.

Oh heck, is Meehole in the industry? I'll just step out of the discussion now, then. Or is "you" meant generally?

[Meehole]

Oh heck, is Meehole in the industry? I'll just step out of the discussion now, then. Or is "you" meant generally?

Nope not in the industry. Did the training to become a meth tester and clearly wasted my money as I am not prepared to go into potentially meth contaminated houses with potential meth users present.
Hubby did training to cleanup, more aligned to structurally demoing and rebuilding but has not pursued that line of work either.
So NO we are NOT in the industry but I AM well informed.

[Meehole]

The problem is you are trying to make money using deceit.
You ignore the scientific evidence which indicates there is no harm in living in a property where meth has been smoked.
Instead you spread scary stories about babies on contaminated carpet trying to tug the heartstrings of vulnerable people so you can scam them for unnecessary meth cleanup work.
You are similar to the old rouges peddling snake oil.
You appear to have no ethics.

I haven't made a cent out of meth testing or clean up.
I have seen evidence whereby meth residue affects people, not sure where you are getting your litany of lies from??
The scenario of the child on the carpet in a house whereby meth had been smoked was my sons friend (he smoked) and his father an ex cop. The man is no idiot, vacated the rental asap. They are renting while building. Son has scarpered to Oz as he owes his mates money, borrowed unbeknown to them to purchase meth. Fact Bob Kane, no bull.
I don't peddle anything and I cannot ascertain how you think I have no ethics?? Maybe its a female thing? All you blokes responding seem to think for some peculiar reason that meth is ok despite me trying to tell you that it isn't.
Not sure where your logic comes from.

[Viking]

Watch out if the test includes the filters from any air conditioning or heat pump.
Neat way for ramping up the test.Had a case just recently where that was done.

Just bullshit all round. As it always was.

[Bob Kane]

I have seen evidence whereby meth residue affects people, not sure where you are getting your litany of lies from??

Please provide your evidence.
The scientists say the residue after smoking meth is too low to harm people.
That is the science and I've posted it in that other meth thread. It was also published in the Property Investor magazine - Jan '18?
I'm not sure why you disagree with this.
Is it a woman thing?

The scenario of the child on the carpet in a house whereby meth had been smoked was my sons friend (he smoked) and his father an ex cop. The man is no idiot, vacated the rental asap. They are renting while building. Son has scarpered to Oz as he owes his mates money, borrowed unbeknown to them to purchase meth. Fact Bob Kane, no bull.

It may be a true story but it doesn't change the fact that living in a house where meth has be used is safe.

I don't peddle anything and I cannot ascertain how you think I have no ethics?? Maybe its a female thing? All you blokes responding seem to think for some peculiar reason that meth is ok despite me trying to tell you that it isn't.
Not sure where your logic comes from.

I'm quoting qualified scientists.
I don't think I can do better than that.
Whereas you are just telling family stories.
The ethics relates to telling scary stories which are not supported by science.

[amatteu]

Hi,

as some respondents have said, this level is very low, and indicates no health or safety concerns.

- The 1.0 was picked up over several locations, if five locations then the average would 0.2/location.
- The report should have made this clear, and that the level is very low and of no concern.
Our reports at Habitat Meth Testing would clearly state that.

- Yes a clean with any household detergent, clean or new sponges etc, and rinse with clean water, sponges etc, will bring down meth levels a lot.
We at Habitat Meth Testing - meth testing houses in Auckland, have been saying that for years, and were occasionally mocked for saying so, now it's accepted knowledge.

- Yes meth does or can leach through paint. It depends on how high the level was, and more on what type and how may layers of paint were applied on top of the meth wall. Right now maintenance builders are getting good results by cleaning first of course, then pigmented or other oil type based sealer paint, and two top coats... no leaching so far = 'encapsulation'. If it's over a low level like under 5.0 to start with, then any safety concerns are allayed.

- Perhaps in future don't bring it up unless asked, and then can say yes it was tested and it's all ok.
If pressed you would have to supply the report or level, and have to explain how low it is.

Or, they can phone Habitat Meth Testing - meth testing houses in Auckland since 2014 - (shameless plugging : ) ), to discuss anything.

regards,
Alan M.

[Wayne]

The scenario of the child on the carpet in a house whereby meth had been smoked was my sons friend (he smoked) and his father an ex cop. The man is no idiot, vacated the rental asap.

As I said before - this is just a story.
There is nothing to suggest that the baby was actually being harmed - they had read the other stories and brought into the general paranoia.
His father being an ex cop is another red herring. He may have had experiance with dealing with 'methed' people but that is quite different to residual 'contamination' (I shouldn't call it contamination as it isn't).

You think you are informed but have read and weighted according to your bias.

[amatteu]

Hi,

yep, anyone in the property or RE industry walks into 'meth houses' every day. Going to open homes? A tradie? etc... a percentage say 20+/- % of those houses will have a meth reading over 1.5 for sure.

For a Field Composite screening sample - eg every room wiped, and the result is cumulative for all locations wiped, even a reading of 10 could be considered very low, because, if say 10 locations were wiped, the average is 1.0, which is very low, and of no health or safety concern.
Of course it's theoretically possible that all the 10.0 of meth was picked up in one room, but that has never been the case in our many hundreds of jobs - the reading of 10 is unevenly spread throughout the house, maybe one room is quite high, eg bathroom, laundry or bedroom might be 5 or 7, and the rest is spread throughout.
Unless its a garage or sleepout.

Alan M
Habitat Meth Testing - meth testing houses in Auckland

[amatteu]

Hi Meehole,

you know "P is synthesised from the pseudoephedrine found in over-the-counter cold and hayfever remedies like Sudafed or Claritin-D." (2009 stuff article),
and many pseudoephedrine containing medicines were sold over the counter to anyone who asked until, was it 6-7 years ago?
And still are with a prescription.

Just for general info:

The saltspseudoephedrine hydrochloride and pseudoephedrine sulfate are found in many over-the-counter preparations, either as a single ingredient or (more commonly) in combination with antihistamines, guaifenesin, dextromethorphan, and/or paracetamol(acetaminophen) or an NSAID (such as aspirin or ibuprofen). (wikipedia)

LIST OF AMPHETAMINES

There is a wide variety of legal amphetamines produced under various name brands in the United States. The following is a list of the most common legal drugs containing amphetamines and amphetamine compounds that are prescribed for medicinal treatment purposes:

• Adderall
• Adderall XR
• Ritalin
• Ritalin-SR
• Dextrostat
• Dexedrine
• Dexedrine Spansule
• Zenzedi
• Concerta
• ProCentra
• Vyvanse
• Focalin
• Strattera
• Desoxyn

Interesting isn't it? Lots of people took amphetamines when using cold meds for example.
Ritalin is given to kids. (500-700 mcgms per dose?)
So I'm pretty sure as level of 1.0 - spread throughout a house, is safe.
I haven't seen any science that says at which level a meth residue reading off a wall is dangerous.
Please reference it if you know any studies like that - professional interest.

In my opinion, it's safer than sitting behind a smoky diesel truck at the lights, or inhaling new carpet phenylalanines, or a large number of other 'environmental chemicals'. Under 10 micron and smaller particulates from coal plants, combustion engines, manufacturing plants, etc, would be way worse than meth.

PROVISO - as said before in this thread, meth LAB is a different story, high to very high levels are a different story. Probably no level of meth is a good thing.
The MoH Guidelines as peer reviewed by Dr Nick Kim had a level of 0.5 and were to deal with meth LABS only... why? Because the OTHER chemicals used in manufacture are poisonous, and difficult and expensive to test for, so meth testing is used as a marker chemical for the other chemicals - benzene, hydroflouric acid, phosphorous, iodine, etc., and very HIGH levels of meth aren't good either of course.

My personal record is 200 0mcgms in a two bedroom apartment in Newmarket.
Done several gang house / labs with reading of 500+.
and many more with each room over 50+.

Most houses come back at zero,

We start becoming concerned for safety if a Field Composite (cumulative is over 10).

Of course, we're dealing with 1.5, and follow StandardsNZ Guidelines etc.
If we get a screening result of over 1.5, then a more detailed distinct area sampling is recommended.

Hope the above helped the discussion along, best wishes, have a great day,

and feel free to contact
Habitat Meth Testing by habitatpropertyservices
anytime to discuss anything,

we do asbestos too, and I'd much rather deal with meth than asbestos, for my own safety.

cheers,
Alan M.

[Bob Kane]

Or, they can phone Habitat Meth Testing - meth testing houses in Auckland since 2014 - (shameless plugging : ) ), to discuss anything.
regards,
Alan M.

Thanks for your reply, Alan.
I think you are the first person in the meth industry to actually talk sense about levels of meth in a property after smoking p.
I wish you well in the future.
Up till now we have had a series of snake-oil merchants telling scary stories and really frightening people.
For some reason the media and the politicians have let the snake-oil merchants have their way but I'm hoping the tide has turned and the science may now silence the snake-oilers.

[Viking]

It continues. Seems the "industry now want to become a duly recognized rort on home owners.

New society aims to clean up meth testing industry

A new society is being set up which aims lift the standard of meth decontamination and screening companies to provide greater clarity in the sector, the society's founders say.
The Methamphetamine Federation of New Zealand is due to launch next week, setting out a code of ethics for both decontaminators and companies that screen properties for the drug.
The industry has come under fire from the government, with the housing minister Phil Twyford accusing operators of helping create "moral panic" in the debate around meth contamination.
( Twyford gets it right. For once.LOL)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/99896244/new-society-aims-to-clean-up-meth-testing-industry

[Wayne]

They are trying to regain legitimacy.
They'll probably succeed because of people paranoia and the idea that where there is smoke there must be fire.

[Perry]

Fun Times

Seven-day tenant termination for meth use slammed
17 February 2018

"Moral panic" over methamphetamine contamination under a proposed new law allowing landlords to throw people out of rented premises with seven days notice will cause worse problems than it solves. The NZ Drug Foundation's submission reflects several other groups' concerns about tenants copping blame for contamination they didn't cause, and being made homeless in tight rental markets. "There is no evidence of an immediate health risk from being in a house where methamphetamine has been used but not manufactured. In most cases there will be no evidence that the tenant was at fault.

Who'd've thought it, eh?

[Meehole]

I'm sure it says somewhere in the tenancy agreement that as a tenant you are responsible for people that come into your home. Cry me a river, tough see ya later!

[Perry]

Sure does. But in the RTA.

41 Tenant’s responsibility for actions of others
(1) The tenant shall be responsible for anything done or omitted to be done by any person (other than the landlord or any person acting on the landlord’s behalf or with the landlord’s authority) who is in the premises with the tenant’s permission if the act or omission would have constituted a breach of the tenancy agreement had it been the act or omission of the tenant.
(2) Where any person (other than the landlord or any person acting on the landlord’s behalf or with the landlord’s authority) intentionally or carelessly damages the premises while the tenant is in the premises, it shall be presumed that the tenant permitted that person to be in the premises unless the tenant proves that he or she took all reasonable steps to prevent that person from entering the premises or (as the case may require) to eject that person from the premises.

Even then, there's a bit of a cop-out, at the end of that section.