Warrant of Fitness for rentals (including details)

[Perry]

Electric fan heaters are
abundant and cheap.

How many apartments have
whatever-sort-of-heating?
(Aside from heat pumps)

[Gladdynook]

What if there is no heating, except
for a three pin electricity outlet?

my friend paid over a million dollars for a house in herne bay that had no built in heating, no insulation whatsoever and a total of FOUR power sockets! He's lived there for over a year, and while he has plans to renovate he has survived without getting sick. Portable bottle gas heaters are fine with the amount of ventilation his place has!
I really don't see the point of a rental WOF unless it is state provided. Normal Tenants can simply up and move if it Doesn't suit their needs.

[speights boy]

I really don't see the point of a rental WOF unless it is state provided. Normal Tenants can simply up and move if it Doesn't suit their needs.

Gladdy
Is it that you don't see the point, or don't see the need?
In other threads about where the new hotspots will be there is much talk about what will be factors.
Improved schools, improved public transport, improved local shopping, improved roads.
Surely housing standards are a part of that.

There appears to be a number of rentals -and private homes- that are not particularly good for the health of young children.
If a family moves into the rental in February, these problems may not become obvious to the tenant until winter.
They may otherwise like the house, as the children can walk to school, close to public transport for work etc.
So, moving is often not as simple as you claim.

[Gladdynook]

My point is around the fact that rental homes don't have to be of a higher standard than owner occupied, which is in effect what the government is proposing. You said it yourself there are lots of private homes too that are "not particularly good for the health of young children".

Forcing things like insulation and heat pumps onto landlords will certainly push up the rents on properties. This i am certain of. This will only make it more difficult for those on low incomes.

Wearing appropriate clothing inside would have a better result than adding efficient heaters as many families cant afford (or choose not to) use heating.

Have a look at the young kids walking/arriving to schools in winter and you'll see plenty without a coat/jacket or even shoes on!

[TheLiberalLeft]

Some places, eg concrete block units, cannot be insulated. Pointless insulating a roof when the walls are not.

[Wayne]

Some places, eg concrete block units, cannot be insulated. Pointless insulating a roof when the walls are not.

it isn't pointless - reduces heat loss but just not as much.

[speights boy]

Sure, Gladdynnok.

Lets divide housing into 3 broad categories.
State, private rental, owner occupied.

You appear to say that State Wof is ok.
Once that is completed, you say stop there.
Others will say extend that to private rental; as in many cases tenants are unable to shift to a warmer house; IE: how does the tenant know it is going to be warmer until they have spent a winter there.

Owner occupied has a lot more ability / flexibility if they wish to improve a house's heat retention problems.

Yes, I agree rental affordability is a problem in a low wage society.
Ability to pay may well be the dominant factor.
Very complex issue.

I do know however, that investors in all sorts of investments have had to lower their yield expectations over the last 5 years.
Often, expected rental yields are based on 90-100% borrowed money.
This is understandable in order to maximise returns in ways other than yield.
As always it will be interesting to see what changes occur in the investment world over the next few years.

[TheLiberalLeft]

It is pointless. Try standing in a cardboard box with an esky lid on your bonce.

[muppet]

Have a look at the young kids walking/arriving to
schools in winter and you'll see plenty without a coat/jacket or even shoes on!

And in this long hot summer you see them walking around in shoes/boots,
heavy weight pants and a jacket with the hood over their heads

[DazRaz]

Some places, eg concrete block units, cannot be insulated. Pointless insulating a roof when the walls are not.

Why is it pointless?

[gavinc]

TLL
I have a concrete block unit and the walls and ceiling are insulated - so don't get the cannot be insulated bit?

[turneg01]

thought someone might find this funny http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/re...-570651889.htm

[gavinc]

thought someone might find this funny http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/re...-570651889.htm

Thanks for highlighting my property - for some reason I had not been getting many takers. Someone said it was because of the gas bottle inside the kitchen and another said the electrics looked a bit dodgy - but hey at this price I cannot see how anyone can compalin

[lawt]

and private homes- that are not particularly good for the health of young children.

And just to think, children have survived for millenia without insulated houses - it's a freaken mirracle. Now it should be someone elses responsibility to provide creature comforts?
Why stop at landlords, why not provide lunches or milk too? Oh wait, we can't expect parents to be responsible for their kids can we? surely this must fall to someone else right.

All 4 of my kids were diagnosed as asthmatic. Now I wonder at the actual definition (I suspect that it may have had something to do with drug company sponsored hollidays), however it turned out that my purchasing 2 dehumidifiers "cured" their asthma.
I didn't hold off waiting for someone else to sort it out for me. It was my responsibility to sort my kids out and damned if I would let anyone take that responsibility from me.
The fact that we saved more on doctors' bills than we spent on electricity was a bonus though.

We moved out (of our private home) in the end and went to a house that leaked (air that is) like a sieve. Great - no need for dehumidifiers AND no asthma/doctors' bills for it either.
So who is going to pay for my insulation? You?

Why does it become someone elses responsibility to care for someone elses kids?
You remove responsibility and people behave irresponsibly there are many examples of this. Lets not perpetuate the problem.

Yes I have a place that is not insulated. The tenant knows it and benefits from a saving in rent as a consequence. I've offered a fire or heat pump for a very modest rent increase (still well below market) but they have chosen not to accept. If I have to insulate I will be charging full value (as it will be more expensive to insulate in this case) - the tenant has already signified he doesn't want to pay more. That is their choice, should the govt proceed they will lose that choice.

But quite frankly I think it is moot. They will not proceed, the ramifications are huge.

[achoom]

It is a no brainer the Government should support insulation of rental properties with a subsidy. Research proves that it is cost effective as tenants represent a large number of hospital admissions. By improving these homes with the likes of upgrading insulation and other measures we all save money on the health spend.
Do we really want more Government intervention by inventing another bureaucratic monster with a highly overpaid CEO and senior management?
I don't think so!