Consultation on proposed RTA changes

[Perry]

Methinks He Doth Protest Too Much

You are entitled to disagree with how I and the NZPIF conducts ourselves Perry, but calling me a stool pigeon of the government and helping them to implement their policy is ignorant and offensive.

My response to that is simple: toughen up, petal. There is no inalienable right to be offended and bluff and bluster ad hominem attacks are rather revealing.

It is very easy for you to mouth off on social media and demand to know what we have achieved, but for your 14,282 posts what have you achieved?

I don't participate in / on social media, so that comment is erroneous, invalid and unanswerable.

I doubt you are a member of your local Property Investors Association (or an associate member for just $25 a year) because you would have received newsletters and know what we have done.

I have attended one local meeting and was singularly unimpressed.

But do tell us all about what has been achieved. Not what has been done.

In the last year we have achieved a better (though not great) situation with tenants responsibility for damage, We have held off a rental property WOF, we have paid for a legal opinion on unlawful dwellings that helped turn over the crazy High Court ruling and an economic report on marginal tax paid by rental property owners which changed the opinion of the Tax working group. We attended eight day long workshops on RTA Reforms and Healthy Homes Act Standards and prepared detailed submissions on both (you can see them here), along with work with the IRD on ring-fencing which didn't get the result we wanted but did get some concessions.

Any specific details available?

I'm very proud of what the NZPIF and PIA's around the country do. Most of the work is carried out by dedicated volunteers and funded by around 3,500 fee paying members. That means around 98% of rental property owners don't contribute anything. We could do a hell of a lot more if we were better funded and I encourage anyone who isn't a member to at least become an associate member. It is just $25 a year for god's sake, but would be an enormous help if everyone joined.

As others have observed on these forums, the NZPIF needs to demonstrate value-for-money first, then implicitly moan about free-loaders, second.

I can accept criticism and I know I don't always get things right, but it is extraordinarily disheartening to work so hard for an industry that I am proud of only to be accused of being a government spy.

Show me where I used the word "spy."

If you can't, are you up to a retraction and apology?

And perhaps go back and see how well you performed, here.

[Nick G]

Keep at it Andrew, ignore the online cynics.

[Andrew]

You said the I was a stool pigeon of the government to help it implement unpopular legislation. A stool pigeon is defined as " a person acting as a decoy or informer; especially : a spy sent into a group to report on its activities".

So no retraction or apology.

However can you show me where I have been a stool pigeon? if not, are you up to a retraction and apology?

This forum is a form of social media, so my comment isn't erroneous, invalid or unanswerable. Answer it.

Cheers Nick! Much appreciated.

[Perry]

You said the I was a stool pigeon of the government to help it implement unpopular legislation. A stool pigeon is defined as " a person acting as a decoy or informer; especially : a spy sent into a group to report on its activities".

So you (indirectly) admit that I did not call you a "spy?"

Also, I did not say that you were anything, at all. I reported that an attendee at a meeting said:

It's becoming obvious that the NZPIF has become a stool pigeon of the government to help it implement unpopular legislation.

Did you see that? NZPIF. Not Andrew King.

This forum is a form of social media, so my comment isn't erroneous, invalid or unanswerable. Answer it.

Social media is drivel like faecesbook or shitstagam or the like. Not a pre-social-media forum where (usually) intelligent debate takes place, like Property Talk.

I see that you avoided responding to the non-response to an earlier PT thread.

A career as a politician beckons, Andrew. Perhaps as an apprentice to the promised 10,000 KiwiBuild homes-a-year Dhil Twitford?

You should do well.

[Rosco]

Hi all,

I think property investors could achieve a lot more if they worked together. I'm completely biased as I"m on the committee of Waikato Property Investors Association, but I think that vehicle should be NZPIF. From Andrew's numbers above there are 3,500 members, which is a lot bigger than any other landlord group. So it makes sense to build onto this, rather try to recreate another group.

The big problem is it is only 3,500 members. If there are over 100,000 landlords, it is really only a tiny portion and means it is really hard to get the attention of the government, or to push them to do anything.

If you have a problem, why not join your local NZPIF association, and try to make a difference?
- take the unlawful dwelling court case for example that NZPIF helped fund. How much has and can this save landlords long term? Imagine if you were getting sued for the last 12 months rent!
- who else is trying to get landlords viewpoint across to the government? If NZPIF wasn't there could Ring Fencing, healthy homes, RTA reform and other matters be a whole lot worse? (no one can answer this, but I personally feel if NZPIF wasn't there, it would be a whole lot worse)


Benefits of NZPIF
BIGGEST item has been mentioned above, a voice to government and other organisations. Someone speaking on all landlords behalf and trying to get fair outcomes. This is huge, and I would be happy to be a full member for $260 a year just to help landlords long term, and therefore help my own investing.
As part of waikato sub, there is also
- Subscription to Property Investor Magazine, worth at least $100 without me having to look up. Gives great articles about what other investors are doing, expert opinions and rent information
- Can ask tenancy expert questions about RTA, rent agreements, help with tenancy tribunal - extremely valuable if have a tenancy issue
- discounts on credit checks
- bunnings discounts that for a lot of members amount to over the annual membership fee
- discount at appliance supplier, heatpumps, stoves, dishwashers etc
- other discounts from other sponsors
- Can attend meetings, to mix and mingle with other property investors, and listen to guest speakers.

Even if you only have one rental, it makes sense to join your local NZPIF association. Since we are generally talking about assets, possibly worth $500,000, doesn't it make sense to spend $260 a year to help to protect you $500,000 investment?


Ross

[Rosco]

Lastly - I think you need to be a member of the NZPIF before you can hassle what it is or isn't doing. If you are a member, then talk to your association, go on the committee or even on the NZPIF committee.

To really make a difference, the number of people belonging to a landlord group needs to move to more like 100,000, then that group will actually be able to do something!

Ross

[Nick G]

Well said, thanks Ross.

[BDub]

It is very easy for you to mouth off on social media and demand to know what we have achieved, but for your 14,282 posts what have you achieved?

Haha....

I think 13,000 of those posts are him letting everyone know “twitford” is coming to get our precious gold

[Bob Kane]

In the last year we have achieved a better (though not great) situation with tenants responsibility for damage, We have held off a rental property WOF, we have paid for a legal opinion on unlawful dwellings that helped turn over the crazy High Court ruling and an economic report on marginal tax paid by rental property owners which changed the opinion of the Tax working group. We attended eight day long workshops on RTA Reforms and Healthy Homes Act Standards and prepared detailed submissions on both (you can see them here), along with work with the IRD on ring-fencing which didn't get the result we wanted but did get some concessions.

Keep up the great work, Andrew.

[Perry]

I Need Help

Here I am, hot, sweaty and not nice-to-be-near after toiling with some delinquent plumbing, as I now investigate things to do with Dhil Twitford's ever-dubious claims and even-more-questionable prognostications.

After searching the government's legislation web site, I cannot find any Act called the Healthy Homes Guarantee Act.

When I enter the word "Healthy Homes Guarantee Act 2017" I get this:

Your search did not find any documents. Modify your search or see our Search help

Even the word "Healthy" gets zero results.

Hhhhmmmm . . .

But by devious Internet methodology, I do (eventually) get the something called: Healthy Homes Guarantee Act 2017

Why was it so hard to find? Because Dhil Twitford organised it so? (Is he that capable??)

It seems that the reason it's sort-of disappeared is summed up thus:

3 Principal Act
This Act amends the Residential Tenancies Act 1986 (the principal Act).

Cunning! Once that Healthy Homes Guarantee Act is passed, it somehow vanishes from public scrutiny, because it becomes absorbed into another Act (the RTA) and therefore almost impossible-to-find.

The Regulations are even more arcane. Such are the lengths which Dhil Twitford is prepared to go to:

138B Healthy homes standards
(1) The Governor-General may, by Order in Council, make regulations that provide for, in accordance with this section, standards (the healthy homes standards) with which landlords must comply for the purposes of section 45(1)(bb) or 66I(1)(bb).

What that does is allow Dhil & the comic opera coalition to implement whatever he / they like, via the Governor-General, thereby escaping any parliamentary scrutiny or any public involvement via a Select Committee submissions process.

Give it to Dhil: when it comes to deception and guile, he's up there with the best.

More uncovered lies and deception coming, very soon. As the expression has it:

Watch this space!

[Don't believe the Hype]

Perry - if what you're suggesting is true (i don't have time to look into it) why not take this to crusher collins... she'll do the heavy lifting for you

[Perry]

Well, I hope what I've described as fact is 100% true.

What might be the motivation is - of course - speculation on my part, reasoned and all as it may be.

[Nick G]

Why don't you follow up and send it to National to have a look? Be more use in their hands and they have teams checking and validating things like this so would save you time.

[Perry]

I suspect that the gNats know what's going on, but the stats will be a deterrent to them.

Something like: quarter of a million voting LLs versus one and a half million voting tenants - for example.

Those are just guesses - I don't know what the real figures are.

[Keys]

It will take years Perry, if not decades, for the voting tenants to realize what will have been done to them.