A look at the future of NZ property market

[McDuck]

If fractional reserve banking is so extremely dangerous, would you care to have a stab at why it is practically universal????
Spaceman.

Easy.
Money is the power to make people do things.
Governments want to make us do things.
People riot it you force them to do the things they don't want to, but don't riot if you make them think they chose the situation themselves.
Fractional reserve banking puts money, and therefore more control over us, into the hands of the government.

and
.. the cost of paying for war, it forced America off the gold standard.(let me check the details of that).

and
.. Governments are often competing with other governments for control.
having a real gold or silver based control/ transaction system can be a problem if another country (like China) wants all your silver... like it did in the grand opium wars of 1838.

So, soft control is the answer.

[Etacovda]

Wow...awesome lurking ....I feel special to have such a post aimed at me.

I know how fractional reserve banking works....thanks .... I asked what the.....multiplier affect of factoring banking.....was.....any fool can plainly see that isn't fractional reserve banking at all.

As for McDucks tedious trolling..... clearly he knows not of what he speaks.

McDuck quite clearly said that there was 44 coins, when in fact there would only have been 10....no new coins were minted.



He claims he's clearly explained why he said there were 44 coins when clearly there never was .....I'm obviously to stupid to see his explanation and he's too mean to post it for me again....do you think you can find where he posted the explanation of the why he said there were 44 coins and re-post for me????



Banks don't lend money they don't have ....that would be fraud.

If fractional reserve banking is so extremely dangerous, would you care to have a stab at why it is practically universal????

Cheers
Spaceman......don't worry I won't be offended if it takes another 6 years for a response.

I think you're arguing semantics on the 44 vs 10 issue - the real situation is that the coins are created in a ledger format - they still dont exist, only the original 10 technically exist (there are not enough physical dollars in existence for you and everyone else to get them out of the bank at the same time).

In actuality, the real rate is 1/(required fractional reserve) - so if you have 10 coins, the fractional reserve is 10%, you can create 100 before you'll be 'even' in the eyes of the ledger - ie, it could be worse than his example.

Banks literally lend money they dont really have - its money they are allowed to create. Its not fraud, its fractional reserve. Its basically leveraged lending finance.

[Damap]

Not sure why but this whole thread makes me think of that famous quote:
If a man speaks in the forest and no women hears him, is he still wrong?

[spaceman]

I think you're arguing semantics on the 44 vs 10 issue - the real situation is that the coins are created in a ledger format - they still dont exist, only the original 10 technically exist (there are not enough physical dollars in existence for you and everyone else to get them out of the bank at the same time).

In actuality, the real rate is 1/(required fractional reserve) - so if you have 10 coins, the fractional reserve is 10%, you can create 100 before you'll be 'even' in the eyes of the ledger - ie, it could be worse than his example.

Banks literally lend money they dont really have - its money they are allowed to create. Its not fraud, its fractional reserve. Its basically leveraged lending finance.

LOLZ.....semantics are important........the proof in that pudding is how many people get it hopelessly wrong about Fractional Reserve Banking

There is an important point over if there were 10 coins or 44 ....and it's fundamental in understanding fractional reserve banking properly.....it is as fundamental as the difference between money and money supply.

You're of course 100% correct the infamous 44 coins don't exist only 10 did....yet McDuck said they did....which of course sums McDuck up pretty well.

As we have managed to move away from the caveman days things have progressed in many many ways....money unsurprisingly is one of them....tell me why in this day and age should there be enough physical dollars in existence for everybody to get them out at the same time?.......dude really!....live in the now electronic banking is great!

Banks don't literally lend money they don't have.....it simply isn't true.

Simply:

Bank has no money....it can't lend any money....It has none.........I bet there's some out there who want to argue this point
Bob deposits $100.
Bank has to keep $10 (reserve) ...it now can lend out $90
Billy-joe-jim-bob borrows $90
The bank has accepted a deposit and retained a fraction of that deposit.......as a reserve.......it hasn't created any money as can be seen by the simple maths of $90 + $10 = $100 (McDuck get somebody to explain that to you).... The money supply has been increased as a portion of Bob's money is being reused by the bank to lend to Bill-joe-jim-bob.

The actual amount of money in my simple example is $100 and any fool can plainly see that there is no extra money created.

LOLZ...careful with the rapidfire posting.....I'm sure Muppet is keeping an eye out

Cheers
Spaceman

[spaceman]

Easy.
Money is the power to make people do things.
Governments want to make us do things.
People riot it you force them to do the things they don't want to, but don't riot if you make them think they chose the situation themselves.
Fractional reserve banking puts money, and therefore more control over us, into the hands of the government.

and
.. the cost of paying for war, it forced America off the gold standard.(let me check the details of that).

and
.. Governments are often competing with other governments for control.
having a real gold or silver based control/ transaction system can be a problem if another country (like China) wants all your silver... like it did in the grand opium wars of 1838.

So, soft control is the answer.

I'll bite .......so if fractional reserve banking enables the government to control us why are the banks that use FRB private (non-government banks) banks????

Still waiting for you to re-post that explanation.....why so mean????

Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

Re the re-post, it's more efficient for you to scroll back and reread it in context. That way might catch your error in perception.

As for the second question, in many countries there isn't a clean separation between government and big money.
See the "court jew" to understand the way the Governments and the Rich upper classes live in a symbiotic relationship.

[Etacovda]

It doesn't have to stop at a ledger balance of 100, that's the problem. You've missed half the point spaceman.

Look up fractional reserve banking increases inflation on youtube (I cannot post links as a low post member)

[McDuck]

.... You've missed half the point spaceman....

It’s clear that spaceman is hinting at something.
I’m tending to think he’s trying to explain a dynamic moving changing system like money
by using only static unmoving and fixed thinking.

If you were to ask him, on the night of a full moon,
“how many full moons are there in a year?” he might reply” Just the one, there it is! Can you show me anymore?

Cycles, circles and repeated tasks return to their starting point, and the work they have done is hidden from sight.
But it’s the work they do that shifts the world, and something that needs to be considered when understanding and describing money.
This problem of spaceman’s, arises because the human mind lives only in the present, the past is gone while the future is yet to be seen.

For moving systems, math sums can hold the past on paper, and all the moments of past can be added up to get a good representation of the effect of all the past events on the present. (The three strikes rule is a good example of this.)

A bank loan takes into account all three as well,
the past ( the deposit and your work history) to issues you money in the present, (the loan) and looks forward to the future ( where you will repay the loan plus interest).

The bad thing for every person holding a dollar is that, every cycle of the loan (as it goes from deposit, to bank to loan, to purchase, to deposit and so on) is negatively effects that dollar. Sure, only in a small way.. but because there are so many loans for so many dollars, the eventual effect is inflation. Usually in the area where the loans are targeted.. housing in our present case. But spreading because banks offer the option to purchase other goods against the loan.

Lastly, if you were to ask spaceman how many letters in this sentence , most people would count them all and get about 144, spaceman could only get 26, because there are only 26 letters of the alphabet. Show me the shape of the 27th letter ! he would protest.

Let’s hope the normal brain function of memory and abstraction start to work in Spaceman, after this huge hint.
By the way, recent tests show some monkeys have this capability, so Spaceman, the bar isn’t set very high at all.

[McDuck]

LOLZ.....semantics are important........the proof in that pudding is how many people get it hopelessly wrong about Fractional Reserve Banking
Cheers
Spaceman

Semantics are important.
The use of language is particularly important to property people.
It would be very beneficial to explore the use of the language - as it represents the related ideas of property and money.
Care to go head to head?
PS. Zeno's paradox could also be considered from a linguistics standpoint.
So, double win then.

[spaceman]

^ I'm up for going head to head...mano a mano .... tete a tete ...maybe even cheek to cheek.

You however have shown time and time again you are not..............do try harder to up the entertainment factor and lower the tedium.

Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

^ I'm up for going head to head...mano a mano .... tete a tete ...maybe even cheek to cheek

Cheers
Spaceman

You just keep your cheeks to yourself, Miley Cyrus has already spoiled that word for the rest of us.
What about a meeting of the minds instead? I'll immediately send out a search party to look for the one you've lost.
Snare drum sound.*

So, language, the transforming of the ideas in your head, into words , then to sounds , and back again into similar ideas in my head.

What specific ideas and words are we considering here?

[spaceman]

^ LOLZ ....well done....I'm mildly entertained by the casual insult......much better than the tedium.

Do continue

Cheers
Spaceman

[McDuck]

^ LOLZ ....well done....I'm mildly entertained by the casual insult......much better than the tedium.
Do continue
Cheers
Spaceman

Some of your punctuation marks aren't entirely familiar to me.
Specifically "^","......" and "LOLZ".
By contrast, the punctuation mark "?" is well known, and indicates a question has been asked.
You might remember that mark as the last character in my previous post.

I did find some information on your "LOLZ" symbol, but it made no sense in the context of your post and was normally used by "prepubescent teenage girls".

[spaceman]

"^" ....points to the post intermediately above ....rather than quoting and wasting priceless internet electrons......^^ post two up ....and so on
"LOLZ" .....how do you know I'm not a prepubescent teenage girl?
"?" .... you're not nearly putting enough effort in to relive the tedium of your posts for me to bother responding to your questions sensibly since you steadfastly refuse to do me the same courtesy ....what is sauce for the goose.....

So why don't you explain what you believe the multiplier affect of factoring banking is ..... that it least should provide me with some giggles.

Why did you say there were 44 coins????

Once again ..... why did you say there were 44 coins??

Would you mind re-posting it???

^ so you do mind re-posting your very clear explanation

Why is that?

What about if I say pretty please with a cherry on top??

I'll bite .......so if fractional reserve banking enables the government to control us why are the banks that use FRB private (non-government banks) banks????

Still waiting for you to re-post that explanation.....why so mean????

Cheers
Spaceman

[Damap]

I can't vouch for the gender because I didn't check but the last time I met spaceman he was definitely post pubescent and over 20.