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Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ) Vs. Gareth Morgan

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  • jenny_pt
    Addicted
    • Feb 2008
    • 535

    #1

    Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ) Vs. Gareth Morgan

    Question: is this article still relevant today?

    housing / property - 8 October 1992

    Like a herd of stuck swine, second hand house dealers have squealed with indignation at the Infometrics analysis of last week that pointed to the likelihood householders would be diluting their exposure to housing over the next twenty years. The case for that finding is pretty sound and fairly well-recognised by all but the pushers of real estate it seems. While it is common for vested interests to be the last to admit that they are on to a loser, the scale of the real estate industry’s displeasure suggests their members should recognise the role that faulty data published by their sector lobby group is having in misleading their own perceptions of residential property.

    According to the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ) house prices are lifting. They use their measure of the median house sale price to base this assertion. While we should be thankful they’re no longer utilising movements in the average house sale price to reach spurious conclusions, partial rehabilitation is only a small mercy. Inferring movements in house prices from a median house sale price is just as bogus an analysis.

    The use of movements in the median house price as an indicator of house price movements is easily shown to be naive and totally bogus. For example if during one period three houses are sold, all of value $100,000, then the median house price - the price of the second house is $100,000. If there are no movements in house prices at all but during the next period three different houses are sold - one of $100,000, one of $150,000 and one of $200,000 then the median house price is $150,000. To conclude that house prices have risen 50% would be totally false.

    It’s a shame the REINZ doesn’t invest some resource into discovering what a price index is and why it’s necessary and conventional to employ one if one wants to measure industry price movements. Perhaps then they’d deliver their members and a gullible public press, a quality of information worth something. It would have the additional benefit of saving some of their members making dunces of themselves by asserting national house prices are recovering.

    The REINZ median house price has risen 3.5% over the year to June 1992 whereas the Valuation New Zealand (VNZ) house price index has fallen 0.3% over that period. They can’t both be right as an indicator of house price movements and it’s the REINZ measure that’s a conceptual cripple, giving quite a spurious indication of what house prices are doing. Conveniently though, from the REINZ perspective it gives a rosier than actual picture of the state of the market.

    VNZ data is telling us that despite higher sales volumes of houses over the last year, house prices continued to fall. This is hardly indicative of a recovering market as per REINZ claims. Vested interest groups like the REJNZ have to provide pretty robust analysis if their “findings” are not to be regarded by the public as just tainted propaganda. The REINZ “Housing Facts” publication falls far short of this criteria.



    Jenny
  • Davo36
    Fanatical
    • Sep 2007
    • 8450

    #2
    So this article is 17 years old. And we're still having the same discussion now!
    Squadly dinky do!

    Comment

    • tpr2
      Fanatical
      • Jun 2008
      • 2939

      #3
      I never liked median house prices as an indicator either.

      Comment

      • tpr2
        Fanatical
        • Jun 2008
        • 2939

        #4
        geee I didn't spot that davo

        Comment

        • tpr2
          Fanatical
          • Jun 2008
          • 2939

          #5
          lol.... that will teach me to try and multi task without having my first coffee of the day.

          Comment

          • McDuck
            Fanatical
            • Apr 2005
            • 4377

            #6
            Originally posted by jenny_pt View Post
            Question: is this article still relevant today?



            Jenny
            Kind of.

            People still use bad science to persuade.

            It's an old trick.
            Last edited by McDuck; 18-04-2009, 03:30 PM.

            Comment

            • Marc
              Strong Fences make Good Neighbours
              • Jul 2003
              • 3853

              #7
              REINZ seem to still reference their "index" even now...

              "REINZ picks house sales recovery"
              Last updated 10:20 15/01/2009

              A come-back from the currently low volumes of house sales is "not too far off" the Real Estate Institute believes after the release of two sets of figures showing prices slumped in the past year on very low numbers of sales.

              However, REINZ is taking a "wait and see" attitude on what might happen to house prices this year.

              According to QV Valuations house prices dropped 7.4 percent during 2008, in the first sustained drop in property values in this country for 10 years.

              The REINZ's own just-released figures showed a drop in the median house price across the country of 4.8 percent to $328,500 for 2008. In December there were just 4302 houses sold compared with 5597 for the same month in 2007 and 8245 in December 2006. Last December's figures were similar to those in December of 1999 and 2000 just before the housing boom kicked off.

              The figures compiled by REINZ and QV are different in that the QV figures incorporate sales after settlement, while the REINZ figures are based on real-time sales reported by agents.

              Goldman Sachs JBWere analyst Shamubeel Eaqub said the latest figures showed the market was finding a base in terms of sales numbers "but demand remains weak and pricing will likely adjust lower".

              REINZ's national president Mike Elford said, he believed the downturn was a "correction" of what in some areas were wrongly inflated values.
              Read more...

              If Gareth is to believed then REINZ seem to be using a flawed measurement?

              Cheers

              Marc
              Free business resources - www.BusinessBlogsHub.com

              Comment

              • tpr2
                Fanatical
                • Jun 2008
                • 2939

                #8
                I think it's flawed.

                Not a good measurement the median. Easy data to get though which may be why they use it.

                What's the average price I wonder. What's the variance on the average and the median.

                Track those variables and it might be a more valuable indicator.

                Comment

                • Marc
                  Strong Fences make Good Neighbours
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 3853

                  #9
                  Helping make sense of property price statistics (Updated)

                  The recent post “Property price data can be confusing - median price / average price / property values” highlighted how with 2 main reporting sources of property price statistics in NZ there can naturally be some confusion.

                  To provide some assistance to try and help better understand how from what is essentially the same data such differing trends can be reported I have provided in the graph below the tracking of the reported pricing from REINZ (The Real Estate Institute) and QV (Quotable Valuations) over the past 3 years.

                  Read more...

                  Cheers

                  Marc
                  Free business resources - www.BusinessBlogsHub.com

                  Comment

                  • exnzpat
                    Addicted
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 816

                    #10
                    Nice find Jenny.

                    Median is definitely designed to muddy the waters. Average is a far better indicator of trend.

                    Marc, a question if I may: why would I follow PropertTalk on Twitter when I can follow PropertyTalk on PropertyTalk?
                    Erewhon is still erehwon, I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

                    http://exnzpat.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • ChundaMars
                      Freshie
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 67

                      #11
                      Originally posted by exnzpat View Post
                      Median is definitely designed to muddy the waters. Average is a far better indicator of trend.

                      How so? Averages (or Means, as the statisticians would insist we should call them) are also open to being distorted.

                      Say for example 10 sales at $100,000 each - a median of $100,000 and an average of $100,000, no problems there.

                      Now add one extra sale at $1,000,000 - your median remains at $100,000 but your average blows out to $181,818.

                      So I can't see why one is "better" than another - both are simply statistical measurements that are open to misinterpretation and distortion, along with pretty much all statistics.

                      You know what they say, lies, damn lies and statistics

                      Comment

                      • tpr2
                        Fanatical
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 2939

                        #12
                        If they provided us with the median and the average plus standard deviation we would be away laughing.

                        Comment

                        • exnzpat
                          Addicted
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 816

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ChundaMars View Post
                          How so? Averages (or Means, as the statisticians would insist we should call them) are also open to being distorted.

                          Say for example 10 sales at $100,000 each - a median of $100,000 and an average of $100,000, no problems there.

                          Now add one extra sale at $1,000,000 - your median remains at $100,000 but your average blows out to $181,818.

                          So I can't see why one is "better" than another - both are simply statistical measurements that are open to misinterpretation and distortion, along with pretty much all statistics.

                          You know what they say, lies, damn lies and statistics

                          We actually had quite a lively discussion on Average vs. Median some time ago, check it out…

                          http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19036&highlight=skew&page=4
                          Erewhon is still erehwon, I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

                          http://exnzpat.blogspot.com/

                          Comment

                          • Marc
                            Strong Fences make Good Neighbours
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 3853

                            #14
                            Originally posted by exnzpat View Post
                            Nice find Jenny.

                            Median is definitely designed to muddy the waters. Average is a far better indicator of trend.

                            Marc, a question if I may: why would I follow PropertTalk on Twitter when I can follow PropertyTalk on PropertyTalk?
                            Hello,

                            Some people use Twitter to get updates to their phone and some people just like the 140 Characters then when they find something they like they can and visit PT

                            Cheers

                            marc
                            Free business resources - www.BusinessBlogsHub.com

                            Comment

                            • muppet
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 10593

                              #15
                              A lot of bird brained twitters I think.

                              Comment

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