Is Hanover Going Under? Or is Henderson?

[Judge]

Tony, i am as junior as Terry and you, which is exactly the reason why i am keeping my mouth shut unless i have something constructive to add to the issue being discussed.
This is a great forum, but when it is flooded by messages which are not constructive and do not add anything to the discussion (while always having a link to the poster's business at the bottom of the message) then the quality of the discussion deteriorates very quickly. I have no right to tell you or Terry what to do. I am as far away form being in the "elite" as you and other junior members. I am just expressing my humble opinion just like you do. Take it or leave it.

[muppet]

Orbital, if you are so concerned about a pecking order please start a new thread.

This thread is about David Henderson.

[TonyMacaroni]

Quite right Judge, conflict of interest is an important thing to point out on a public forum such as this. Just would seem more conducive to a reasoned debate if comments were kept above the belt and not made personal (I am not suggesting you personally have engaged in this).

Now Back to Mr Henderson.

[k1w1]

I want to know more about this pecking order stuff. Who keeps this list?

In case the 'master of the scrolls' is reading this, please insert me into the 'pole-sitting & hot dog-eating champions' heading, sub-section 'not averse to the odd lap-dance'.

[Monid]

K1w1... You are already there of course

On a serious note, I'd agree Captain Crab was out of line and would ask that people report such posts by using the button at the top left of each post. This allows us moderators to know that there is a problematic post.

On another serious note, there is no and should be no pecking order here on PT, just contributors to the same community.

Cheers
David

[tpr2]

Terry, you are reasonably junior on this forum, but seem to be calling the shots left right and centre. Your dramatic appearance on this forum with reference to multi million dollar apartments and boats made a number of people wonder what the hell was happening.
IMHO it may be wiser to refrain for telling people who is right and who is wrong, and leave this to moderators and those people who earned respect of other PTers through numerous useful/constructive posts over a long period of time on this forum.

Hi Judge
Thats a fair call, however I would add that just because I may not have 3000 posts, a phd in literature or a book published that I will sit back and be a bystander when other people begin to abuse other pt'ers (other people anywhere actually).

As it was I didn't notice anyone else comment on Capcrabs behavior towards princess other than Tony so my comment was delivered.

I will add also that I would hardly consider my posts to be calling the shots anywhere on this forum and I didn't say who was right or wrong.
I said "You are correct in your statements but slamming a fellow PTer and using expletives is hardly conducive to creating an environment where people can safely express themselves and seek new knowledge in the process"

So thanks for you comment judge and maybe I will let bullies pick on other people in the future but I doubt it.

cheers

Terry

[tpr2]

'junior' - how is this measured? Don't you have less posts Judge? Is that your measure?

As a new poster but long time watcher can somebody please post a pecking order for the site on a sticky thread. I don't know, maybe based on net worth or whos been in the business longer. Then when I or others get really rude or sarcastic responses to genuine questions we'll know its OK because they are more 'Senior' than us.

Really need to watch this gang mentality if you guys want to keep this site popular into a property downturn. Seems to be some fairly inappropriate posts from what I can only assume are the 'PT elite' towards their perceived juniors...

Thanks for the quote Tony.

I wasn't going to head down that path but since it was bought up, why the heck not.
Just because someone posts for the first time on property forum doesn't mean they should be considered a junior.
Wouldn't it be funny if Jan Somers logged in for the first time and was told her input was not valid because she only had 1 post.

cheers

Terry

[tpr2]

K1w1... You are already there of course

On a serious note, I'd agree Captain Crab was out of line and would ask that people report such posts by using the button at the top left of each post. This allows us moderators to know that there is a problematic post.

On another serious note, there is no and should be no pecking order here on PT, just contributors to the same community.

Cheers
David

Ta da...

So thats how it is done. Us juniors now know what that little icon is for

And yes back to David Henderson.

It was a pretty good movie but I wonder how the ending would look these days.

(I hope I got the right Henderson)

Terry

[sarahd]

Back to the thread....hanover's website down...weird?

[Commercial Dan]

Hanover Gone!!!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10523117

[Commercial Dan]

Hanover in trouble

Previous News

Wednesday 23rd July 2008


Hanover Finance has suspended acceptance of new investments and repayment of existing deposits as it worked with trustees on a plan to restructure the business going forward.
Hanover Finance, which continues to meet its Trust Deed obligations and has ongoing financial capacity to trade, says it is acting early to preserve value in the business as market conditions continue to deteriorate and uncertainty mounts over borrowers' abilities to repay as forecast.
Shareholder Mark Hotchin says: "Against a backdrop of global credit uncertainties, falling property prices and lower reinvestment rates, the industry model has collapsed. Alternate financiers are increasingly unwilling to step in, and we're also now starting to see borrowers trying to take advantage of the uncertainty to delay payments - further compounding the situation."
Mark Hotchin and fellow shareholder Eric Watson have pledged continued support for the business and will also work closely with the trustees to deliver the restructure arrangement.
Mark Hotchin says the suspension of capital and interest repayments, effective today, will enable the business to be managed in a measured way as it works through a restructure plan to allow investors to be repaid over an agreed time period. The action also applies to investments with Hanover Finance subsidiary United Finance Limited, and sister company Hanover Capital Limited.
A detailed proposal will be presented to investors, targeted for late August but with the exact timing to be determined in consultation with the trustees - New Zealand Guardian Trust for Hanover Finance, and Perpetual Trust for United Finance and Hanover Capital.
"We are disappointed to take this action given that the business is still projecting a cash positive position. But, given the future uncertainty for the industry and the impacts now being felt by even the most well-established finance companies, we believe it is prudent to act early to preserve value for all," Mark Hotchin says.
"Hanover Finance is now becoming caught up in this widespread uncertainty around borrowers' ability to meet their obligations. In this environment, we think it's sensible to take some time to work through all this in an orderly way. It also gives us more time to realise value from all borrowers," Mark Hotchin says.
The Hanover Finance book comprises approximately 13,000 investors with $465 million in debentures. United Finance has around 2,400 investors with $65 million in debentures. And Hanover Capital, offering secured preferential bonds, has around 1,100 investors with $24 million worth of bonds. As a consumer finance business FAI Finance Limited, which is also a Hanover Finance subsidiary, is not proposed to be included in the restructure.

[donna]

Umm not gone - as I read it

HF say they are not accepting or paying out $$ until a new restructure is in place.

I guess this means they have put trading 'on hold' for a while.

Geez their huge advertising campaign will stop and that will save them a few $$million.

cheers,

Donna

[Jurgs]

Has a finance company yet traded successfully out of a moratorium?

[Commercial Dan]

They are gone, people will be lucky to get 30 cents in the dollar back and it will take a couple of years!

I pity those with loans, especially development ones as they will be called in for sure.

[Jurgs]

They're calling them in already - I've had maybe four or five requests to refinance from Hanover in the last 3 weeks. Not that there's anyone left to take them to. Some cheap half finished stock out there right now.