Who do I call to assess moisture/condensation/mold issue?

[chuckles09]

In the past few months, current tenant (who has been in since Feb 09) started complaining of excess moisture/mold; that her family's clothes are growing moldy while in drawers; that windows are all wet in the mornings; that it got so bad in the bedrooms that she made her family sleep in the lounge instead (hubby & 2 kids under 3yo).

She says that she ventilates every room almost daily, has her dehumidifer going 24/7 and still has problem.

I've not had this issue with the property before. Previous tenants haven't mentioned any moisture/mold problem, and during previous (winter) inspections, I've noticed the place is ok re. moisture/mold.

If I call HRV / DVS / MoistureMaster / etc to go and assess the situation, surely they wouldn't be impartial as they'll be wanting me to install their system.

Who do I call to go an impartial assess on how chronic the situation is?

Thanks.

[Philmc1]

I think a lot of landlords would all have had similar situations. I certainly have.
New tenant and suddenly the problems gone again.
Possible causes

All windows are shut at night, hence all that heavy breathing condenses on the windows. I know everyone has to be security minded these days but not having a top window ajar at night (even when it's freezing outside) is like trying to suffocate onseself.

Portable gas heaters used in the hallway to heat the bedrooms at night - heaps of moisture. leading to mould everywhere.

Drying washing inside in front of fire or running a clothes drier with no outside ventilation.

Not opening a window or turning on fan when showering.

Aluminum joinery certainly doesn't help either if all windows are shut as they are basically air tight.

In all these case the damp air hits the walls, windows, clothes etc and immediately condenses.

See if you can go round one night and check for evidence of any of these things.

Good luck

[Mentorman]

Location

Are you in Auckland ?

Cheers

Mark

www.maintaintoprofit.co.nz

[chuckles09]

Thanks, Philmc1. I'll have a better idea of what to look for when I go to do an inspection in a week, early morning to see about the condensation.

Mark, the property is in Papakura.

Tenant requested to break her fixed term due to the 'excessive condensation/mould' being dangerous to her & kids' health. I agreed on the condition she finds 'approved' replacement tenant. She rejected this, gave me a 10-Working-Day notice to fix this problem. She has said that she'll apply to TT to break tenancy.

Would it be up to LL or tenant to prove that the conditions are unsuitable for living in?

Thanks.

[Mentorman]

Next

If she takes you to TT she nees to prove it - photos will do it and you will lose probably. I can give you a report if you wish , best to get rid of her and re rent it anyway by the sounds of things >>> Just let her go and sort the problem.

[devidfox]

Friends of mine had a similar problem and had a building inspector come in to look around. Only problem is that this will cost you a bit, but they typically do a thorough job and can test for excess moisture in the house. They will look for damp and I think that they use a machine to test out the moisture levels in the home which could find the root of the problem. There are certainly a lot of reasons why there could be excess moisture though; typically from the habits of the tenants so it's a hard one. Good luck!

[chuckles09]

Thanks everyone for your posts.
I've conducted an inspection of the property with an experience builder and yes, there is excess moisture.I don't know why it's occurring with these tenants - builder believes it's mostly due to whatever they're doing. They are good tenants and I'd like them to stay, so I guess I'll be putting in a ventilation system (and raise the rent) if they want to sign another fixed term contract. Otherwise, I'll just have to let them go.

[kiwifirst]

Which ventilation system?

Hi

Am also in Papakura looking at installing ventilation system for similiar reasons, any recommendations who to use??

[HHP]

Hi

Am also in Papakura looking at installing ventilation system for similiar reasons, any recommendations who to use??

https://www.smartvent.co.nz

look on their web site and you will find installers in your area.

[jblca]

Condensation

A builder friend solved the problem on one of our properties by laying polythene under the house and sealing the ground. Apparently the problem in in areas with heavy clay ground as it holds the moisture and it evalorates under the house making the air very damp, but not enough to cause the floors to break down. you need to ensure there are no gaps so the plastic is taped and the ground sealed, especially around the piles

[MarkS]

Rising Damp?

As already mentioned this could be any number of reasons but most likely the current tenants lifestyle if you have never had this sort of feedback from previous tenants or no sign of mould/condensation issues from previous tenancies.

As for ventilation systems they work but don't live up to all the hype. They will actually cool the house down during the evening if left on. They reduce mold and condensation by moving the air and don't actually dry it.

I think you need to do some investigation before spending money on these off the shelf systems. Find out which rooms are damp and where in the rooms is the dampness or mould. Use a moisture meter to check the floor and walls to see if they are damp. You can rent these from hire centres ($30-40 for 1/2 day. Some use two small pin type electrodes that leave tiny holes but you'll never see these). Dampness in the Gib or trim may indicate leaks in the building envelope. If dampness is found in the building structure you 'll need a professional to do more investigation.

In short I'd do more checking before spending or as Mark T says let them move on and get new tenants.

Good luck.

[chook]

Philmc1 and mark are both right. Firstly get rid of the tenants then get the next tenants to do the single biggest thing that wll solve a mould problem....open windows and get some ventilation going which will dry out the inside of the property and keep mould away. If windows are shut the whole time.. get ready for a lot of mould! simple!!

[kirschbaum]

Install secure passive ventilation

The previous posters are all pretty much right.

The most likely cause of the excess condensation and mould is the activities of the current tenants. Things such as drying clothes indoors, cooking over the stove, too many indoor plants, showering and even just breathing produce a lot of moisture.

Aside from minimising these actions, the single biggest thing they/you can do is to increase the ventilation. This introduces fresh, drier outside air into the home and expels the moist air.

It's really not necessary to install a fan based ventilation system in the home. In most cases, passive ventilation will work fine.

The simplest way to improve passive ventilation is to leave windows slightly open all the time. This will do the trick, but you'll never convince a tenant to do this, mostly for security reasons.

However, a really good option, particularly for rental properties, is to install trickle vents in the windows. These are glazed in so they're totally secure and they can be left open 24/7. The one's I'm thinking of also include a mesh to keep the mosquitoes out, and they're much cheaper than installing a forced air system.

Whilst fresh outdoor air, is generally colder than the damp stale air in your home, the key thing is that it's drier.
In fact, without going into the science of it, cold air can't hold as much moisture as warm air. So even on a cold wet winter's day, bringing in outside air and warming it will reduce your relative humidity and improve the indoor air quality. It's certainly better than sealing the home up and stewing. Sure you minimise your heating costs, but at the cost of air quality and your health, not to mention the renovation and repair costs due to mould and condensation damage.

Other steps:
You should also install extraction fans in the bathrooms and a ducted rangehood in the kitchen, but there's no guarantee the tenant will bother to use them

Convincing them to maintain the indoor temperature above about 18 degrees will also help. This pulls moisture out of the furnishings and carpet so it can then be expelled outside and it keeps the colder surfaces such as windows above the dew point which prevents the moisture in the air from condensing on them. But the chances are your tenants won't keep the home warm enough, since this affects their power bill.

So, since you can't actually control a tenant's behaviour, I'd say the best option is to get the passive window vents installed. See if you can have them locked in the open position. Then you've at least done everything you can to mitigate the situation and protect your investment.

Personally, if the tenant hasn't already left, I'd let her go.

[SmartAlarm]

Once again. Getting rid of tenants does not guarantee the new ones will like keeping windows open. Get a ventilation system and do it properly and look after your tenant as well as your investment. Mould is sickening and I can't understand why a landlord would not immediately instal something in every unit they rent. Look up SAYR or HRV.

[Anita]

Any landlords in Central or South Auckland, that got HRV and SAYR done for rentals?How does it work for you and tenants? How much did it cost and what features are they come up with? Any package deals you conme across from any reliable traders? Did you go for 2 x fans or how many fans would be ok for an average 3 beddie? Any important features we need to be aware of? I have got 2 x of my 1950's houses just painted, spent quite a bit for painting as well repairing the window-sills etc, as they were rotten, for prolong waters sitting on the window panes over the past Winters and am wondering whether HRV would fix the problem up, as i don't want to again repair the window panes inteiror and exterior again. Any ideas guys? Would HRV system look after this particular issue? Or what is it good at? any other suggessions? How much on average it'd cost to get an effective HRV system installed, what feautres need to look for? Any professional tradepeople you got employed and you are happy with ? It doesn't subise by the government pack it seems? Do we n eeed to insulate as well, when we install HRV system? Any ideas suggestions are welcome. Much obliged