Putting in a new kitchen - how hard to DIY?

[artemis]

I recently put a new kitchen into a rental flat in Wellington, and used one of the well known kitchen companies in order to have a one stop shop and save me time and energy. What a disaster. The 2 day job quoted was finally wrapped up in a little over 3 months. You name it, it happened. Some components not delivered, some were incorrect and had to be replaced, some were damaged, the plumber and electrician both had to be brought back at leat once. The installer managed to install a pantry shelf with a 2cm slope from one side to the other, and a bench which leaned forward so that any drop of water on the benchtop fell right off onto the floor. Add in very poor communication and no sign of a discount or even an apology for the major hassles, and I am thinking of a DIY next time round, which is coming up soon.

I'm happy to name the company if permitted by the moderators.

I would be most interested to hear from anyone who has bought components and installed them. What level of design - if any - is offered by these outlets (I'm thinking of The Building Depot or similar). What is the quality like? Does it stand up to tenant wear and tear? Any war stories gratefully received.

[cube]

No disaster stories, but I'd happily recommend JoLansford kitchens in Avondale, Auck, who took our design, built it on time and took 1 day (yes, 1 day!) to remove the old kitchen and install the new one.

Only tips for long kitchen life after all that - don't use Particle board, only use MDF and pay the extra for better hinges.

cube

[casacamo]

Jon's kitchenmakers of Carr rd Mt Roskill
we have found them very good to deal with, and at a good price.
They have done 3 kitchens for us.
I take a sketch of what we want and they get on with it and do the rest.
None of the whistles & bells that other kitchen companies try to push,
but I,m sure that can get them for you if you want.

Casacamo

[Jaberwoky]

DIY Kitchens

Hi,
You asked a question in Late May about DIY kitchens. Here,s how I do it from A to Z. Admitidly Im a tradesman but I have no machinery and I believe that any hobby woodworker can achieve great results.
READ ON....
I suggest you buy 1 or 2 sheets of 3mm custom wood and do a full size plan of your kitchen showing the construction. use different color pen for the toespace, the Top(with bowl position) and the carcase construction. The carcases are just a series of boxes about 750mm high all joined together sitting on a toespace about 150mm high and a 30mm top. With your 3mm c/w also do an end view showing all the overhangs and drawer spacings,adj shelf hole positions and centre lines for hinges and drwer runners. You should allow for a 50mm spacing between the wall and the back of the carcase to allow for services. This full size drawing makes it all very visual and easy to detect potential disasters. Basically , when you've done this-you've already built it.
Once youve done all the drawing ,I suggest you take it into your local merchant who supplies the local tradesman ( wouldnt hurt to speak to these guys at the very begining actually- you need to know thicknesses you'll be using b4 you start drawing, tell them what you are doing- they'll advise you on all the latest systems available for drawers etc and the type of boards)- They will even be able to buy in the doors and draw fts when you are ready for them . Grant at Rose City woodpanels PN covers the surrounding area and down to Wgtn, he's a tradesman and will probably come to your house.
Next you'll need to do a cutting list off your plan. Then you'll need to work out how much board you'll need -Buy it and get it delivered to a joiner / cabinetmaker and pay to get it all cut up and edged on the front edge.Then assemble all your carcases and toespace(on site if you can- saves cartage).
Think of it all as a learning experience- you might make the odd mistake , but it's not a mistake unless it cant be fixed.

Cutting list should have: ends,shelves& bottoms(go between the ends), toprails ( 2 per carcase- 65 x 16mm usually horozontal) 5mm backs. Your toespace is done in praticle sizes to suit bd lengths. HAVE A TRADESMAN CHECK YOUR CUTTING LIST if in doubt.

Other things to consider are: You dont need upstands on your top if you like tiling , a timber ft edge catches the eye and is not expensive .. go for 120 degree opening hinges or consider more when its in a corner-180 - 90 degree hinges are cheaper but you'll regret it after the first door gets snapped off. Meltica doors with 3mm rounded edging are worth their weight in gold.-allow 4mm gaps around the doors and drawer fts . A $200 drill press from Mitre 10 and sharp drill bits are the only other thing you'll need(for drilling shelf stud holes and hinge holes- oh yeah -your using overlay hinges so you'll need to buy the special drill bit- or consider having the doors pre-drilled). Do a practice run with some scraps first. CHECK TWICE CUT ONCE is the motto. Always have a tradesman on hand to ask questions and do those special fitting tricky bits. Square drive screws are a must. The stove should be 5-10mm proud of your tops.

Installation: A sledge hammer and crowbar are good tools to have on hand for taking out the old kitchen-- easy does it ! You might get a few quid for it and make sure electrics and plumbing have been cut off. Common sense right. You dont wanna be making more work for yourself.
You put your toespace down first-IT"S GOTTA BE LEVEL!!! then everything will be sweet- Talk to the merchant about the latest toespace systems b4 you start drawing your plans-think they have adjustable feet nowdays.
Put your pre-assembled carcase boxes on the toespace and screw them down- Talk to the merchant on the best way to join them together.
Have your tops made with the bowl fitted and get it delivered when your ready -get the pumber and electrician to pre inspect.they can look at your plan and do any trouble shooting ,also guide in what to watch for when taking the existing kichen out. Any exposed panels can be measured and fitted later but allow for them on your plans. Fit your doors and drawer fts- this is the most important, possibly a good time to get the tradesman in for a couple or 3 hrs to put you on the right track.

In Closing: The biggest mistakes I've come across is people not knowing how to screw something together- eg fixing one panel to another -- the hole in the panel being fixed needs to accomodate the screw loosely- the pilot hole -that being the hole that the screw will grip to, needs to to be the same diameter as the shank of the scew-- 8 guage srews, from memory 4.5mm and 2mm drill dits- dont quote me. Ends are left and rights- mark the top and ft edge of every end b4 you drill holes.

Dont screw through your tops or close to edges-check twice the length of your screws. A drill bit caught up in hair or clothes or going into your hand is not nice. You cant push the rewind button when a hole is drilled, be careful with door handles especially.

Hope this info is helpful- Its only a guide- things could have change a little by now . 8 yrs ago

Get visual and have some fun-

A bit of a mission but it's not rocket science!

regards

The Jaberwoky

[artemis]

Thank you Jaberwoky. That is one of the most valuable responses I have ever seen on this site and your effort is hugely appreciated. I have printed this out and will pass it to the family handy person.

[drelly]

What sort of prices do you pay for a basic kitchen these days?

[Jaberwoky]

I'm a bit out of touch Dave.
Been out of the country for a few years. returning home for the odd project. I estimate $ 6-7,000 for bottom of the line- material cost around 30%. A lot depends on the size and the simplicity.

Artemis.. Glad I could be of help.

Cheers Jab.

[hawkeye]

I bought a second hand kitchen for about $1000 recently for our house. I had a joiner glue a border of custom wood around the doors fronts to neaten up the edges which were a bit frayed and painted them. Added a new bench top and second hand sink and tiles behind the oven and it looks like a new kitchen. We had a real estate agent around to appraise the house and they particularly liked the new kitchen!

LJ

[Traff]

Hi,

I run a large kitchen company servicing The Far North down to Auckland and we do about 30 kitchens a week of all costs from 3 to 60k.The answer to your question is you get (most times) what you pay for.DIY shops will not install ,use lesser grade hardware and offer little technical help.This is ok if your room and kitchen are simple and you can install or have a friend.I have researched MDF and P-bd for HNZ contracts and there is little difference in long term durability,tennants can damage both and water is always the enemy in the end.Seal your benchs well with good silicone.Also around floor panels is crucial, use good hardware ,especially hinges, and always buy a kitchen with a warranty "if "you spend good money, some companies will cover rentals , most wont !

Shop on Trade me for second hand kitchen s-really cheap some times , anything under 2 k that will fit is a deal usually and with used appliances included.Good place to sell also.Demolition comanies pay good money for your old kitchens - phone around locally...

Good luck next time with your kitchen
cheers

Mark

[toby]

Hi Artemis,
I use Maidstone kitchens in Upper Hutt. They do installs to.
I have had a number of kitchens done around the Wellington region by them and for $4000 I get a good solid, quality kitchen that anyone would be happy to use.

[nagemdraw]

We installed a placemakers kitchen along a wall with only one corner so it didn't matter about getting things to fit perfectly between two walls and then got a joiner to make up a bench to our specs (i didn't like the placemakers ones). We initially did only one side of the kitchen (it's huge) and are now looking at doing the other half. Joiners are proving to be no more expensive than the modular cabinets from placemakers and we are saved the hassles of assembling and installing the units. Go with a joiner i say.

[lissie]

I've just had a price from Mitre 10 Mega in Petone - about $5000 for joinery and sink pous $1500 for appliances - I am delighted much less than I though. And mainly pre-assembled apart from the large pantry ! Most importantly delivery is 3-4 weeks - which I doubt many joiners could do !

[drelly]

Watch out for kitchens from the hardware chainsstores. Some are particle board and won't last long once water gets into them.

[lissie]

I have now checked out both Mitre10 and Placemakers - I think Placemakers is a bit cheaper but you need to assemble the units - Mitre10 are pre-assembled . Both are using Melanime with standard hinges / runners - so from a quality point of view I cant see a problem . The main limitation is limited colour options (otherwise it gets way expensive) which presumably is how they get the price - efficent use of the large sheets of melamine.

[toby]

Unless one has a bent toward doing their own assembly installs if you go direct to a manufacturer you maybe suprised by what you can get. I think the difference when you shop around, between buying from Mitre 10 and buying from a cabinet maker is nominal. However it always help when you use them regulary.