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Cult following and you? "Rich Dad Poor Dad"

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  • xris
    Fanatical
    • Nov 2005
    • 3283

    #1

    Cult following and you? "Rich Dad Poor Dad"

    www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

    I chanced upon this a couple of days ago and thought it might be of interest to some people.

    By posting it here I realise that I lay myself open to accusations of stirring but I am willing to accept that.

    It is a long article which I have only skim-read, but I have picked up enough to know what the thrust of the author’s argument is.

    Below is a very short summary of what I believe the article is about.

    The writer is saying that Robert Kiyosaki and the Rich Dad books are good examples of a personality cult around him, Robert Kiyosaki. He says that most of the books are fiction with little truth to them, unlike the strong impression to the contrary given by RK. The real life ‘rich dad’ does not exist. The finance principles are very standard accounting practices, just glossed up to impress. RK himself is a flake in most senses other than being able to get thousands of people to follow him and his every word, and to spend money on his products. And much more in the same vein.

    I tried to read his three consecutive books starting with “Rich Dad, Poor Dad’. That book was quite enjoyable, the second one less so, and I could only get half way through the third one before giving up. The reason for this is that it, the third one, was so badly written. In fact, although the first couple of books were also badly written, their story lines and subject matter were interesting enough to make up for that.

    I have heard all this before but it struck a chord with me this time because of similar comments recently made on this site.

    As you may know, I have a healthy scepticism of all this sort of thing and I am quite pleased with myself for not having fallen for any (or rather very little) of the hype and mass adoration shown to many people over the last few years. (I see quite a lot of this going on here on this site in relation to certain people and organisations.) The outcome is as clear as day to me – namely that these ‘gods’ people have made for themselves will disappear as the property boom which feeds the cult mentality falters and declines. And then we will hear the those same people who followed those 'gods' being the first to jump up to knock them and say what con-artists they were.

    Anyway, just some thoughts. Read the article yourself if you are interested.

    xris
    Last edited by xris; 28-06-2006, 10:14 PM.
  • David_W
    Forum Junkie
    • Jun 2004
    • 274

    #2
    Interesting article - well spotted Xris. I wonder if Tony Robbins would fit into the same category? I like his books (mammoth sizes they are) but just wonder who will be the next Tony Robbins when he retires. His brand is lost without him.

    In addition I don't think Tony Robbins could be accurately described as a flake. He seems to walk the talk.

    It's pretty hypocritical if a "god" does not follow his own advice.

    Comment

    • cube
      Thinking outside the square.
      • Jun 2005
      • 5076

      #3
      If you like to see people achieve their goals and change their's and other's lives for the better, does it matter how they are inspired.

      Dr Suess's "Oh, The Places you Will Go!" is inspirational, but totally fictional (except for the "Waiting Place"!).

      cube
      DFTBA

      Comment

      • drelly
        Fanatical
        • Jan 2004
        • 5838

        #4
        Hey Xris,

        I've seen that site before and I tend to think the guy is on some kind of a crusade himself.

        I've read the first book and one of the others but I found that the later ones are really just a regurgitation of the first.

        Kiyosaki's books tend to be long on attitude adjustment and short on specifics. Many people who read Rich Dad Poor Dad were inspired to act and change their attitude to money if not actually educated about specifically how to do it. To me this is enough.

        It doesn't really matter to me whether Rich Dad is real or not. I don't even care if Kiyosaki is everything he says he is. The message is still useful.

        John T Reed appears to me to be an extremely analytical type who cannot just accept a positive reaction to something which may not be offering what he considers a total, factual, step by step package in the same way he thinks.

        If anyone gives up their education or job and pursues a career in property because they read RDPD... it's not because of Kiyosaki, it may be because they are dumb-asses or it may be that they are self-motivated and extremely driven. The outcome is not dependent on the book.

        I firmly believe that each of us finds our own level in life and Kiyosaki or Richmastery or Tony Robbins or any other kind of "gurus" are never responsible for the outcome. They are only catalysts for action.

        cheers,
        Dave.
        You can find me at: Energise Web Design

        Comment

        • Rolf
          Addicted
          • Dec 2004
          • 519

          #5
          I have also seen that article before, a couple of years ago. I think the authour goes a long way to prove a point about weather RK is what he claims to be - but as others have said, I don't believe that is so important.

          When I read RDPD I was inspired indeed, allthough the book mostly contains pretty basic and obvious facts I must say.
          I like RK's somewhat anarchistic style, turning things a bit upside-down in order to get the message through. That his stories may be fiction I don't really mind, they are still good stories
          High resolution Fractal Art on quality canvas: www.FractalArt.co.nz

          Comment

          • Brettus
            Freshie
            • Nov 2005
            • 27

            #6
            Originally posted by drelly

            If anyone gives up their education or job and pursues a career in property because they read RDPD... it's not because of Kiyosaki, it may be because they are dumb-asses or it may be that they are self-motivated and extremely driven. The outcome is not dependent on the book.

            I firmly believe that each of us finds our own level in life and Kiyosaki or Richmastery or Tony Robbins or any other kind of "gurus" are never responsible for the outcome. They are only catalysts for action.

            cheers,
            Dave.

            Very well put - totally agree !
            Last edited by Brettus; 29-06-2006, 10:08 AM.

            Comment

            • Muffin
              Opinionated
              • Feb 2006
              • 236

              #7
              A contrarian view...

              Given some of the claims that are made I think there needs to be some line in the sand drawn. From memory there was an article from Kiyosaki saying that silver was the way to go, I think once he crosses the line from motivation to specific recommendations that he as a guru becomes dangerous. The problem is that people have followed his call to arms too closely in the past.

              As a messenger of the need to take action he is excellent, as an investment advisor I would be running for the hills.

              (I am even more wary of people who make claims of owning $x of assets but never being able to prove it, this is why I find Ron and others so credible, they are willing to not only educate, but also back it up...)

              Comment

              • xris
                Fanatical
                • Nov 2005
                • 3283

                #8
                Hello Dave,

                I find it difficult to disagree with anything you have said. In some ways RK is not the best example to use when talking about the dangers of cult followings.

                If I have any concern, it is about people handing over a lot of money (thousands of dollars) when they are caught up in one of these ‘cults’. That really is not the case with RDPD – you can buy the book for around $30.00 and have endless hours of enjoyment or otherwise from it. You also have all the time in the world to reflect on it before committing your hard earned dollars to anyone or anything. If it is not for you, what have you lost? $30.00. I would also agree that its simple message, although basic and poorly edited/written, is compelling.

                The other gods/gurus around at the moment (no names, but there are plenty of them) may be better examples to use. In their case I would hesitate in saying that nobody is forcing anybody else to follow their advice - buy lots of rentals, or invest in $3,000 seminars, or pay a commission to a finder, or to mortgage their family home up to 100% while buying three investment properties. These gurus can be very compelling especially to the young, naïve and inexperienced, and I believe some sort protection should be put in place to protect the public. I think sometimes it is too easy to say: ‘Buyer beware’.

                I accept the line that some people have benefitted a lot from following the advice of these gurus. But, exactly how many nobody knows. The ones who have succeeded are, I would think, most definitely in the minority (but they are the ones who keep getting thrown into the spotlight). How many people have lost how many thousands of dollars to these gurus with no hope of getting it back?

                We do have very clear laws about such things as misleading advertising to protect the public. I for one am pleased to see that occasionally these gurus are called up to account for themselves (and invariably receive a firm smack on the bottom). Perhaps additional laws should be introduced to help keep a check on the more outlandish activities of these gurus.

                xris



                Comment

                • cube
                  Thinking outside the square.
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 5076

                  #9
                  How many people have lost how many thousands of dollars to these gurus with no hope of getting it back?
                  There is a difference between people who pay thousands in good faith and get ripped off (developer goes bust; they pay over the odds for holiday homes in Bulgaria etc) and people who pay money in good faith and take no action.

                  Because they end up getting 'nothing' for their money, they feel ripped off, but other people in a similar situation to them have spent the same money and gone on to great things.

                  I'm no angel when it comes to taking action, but at least I don't blame the 'gurus' for my lack of action.

                  cube
                  DFTBA

                  Comment

                  • McDuck
                    Fanatical
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 4377

                    #10
                    Thanks for that.
                    I really enjoyed it.

                    I’m still laughing…

                    The silent partner who is a cat.

                    The man who simply placed his hands on the keyboard, attached electric stimuli to his *(&*&^&, flipped the switch and started typing.

                    That stuff just kills me.

                    I enjoyed Rich dad poor Dad..it was a good story with a hero and a journey and risks and a prize…just like Indiana Jones or Harry potter.

                    This investigative report was also enjoyable for exactly the same reasons.

                    I’m not fussy if the prize is untold riches or the truth…as long as it’s entertaining...and both were.

                    Comment

                    • RentMaster
                      Addicted
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 914

                      #11
                      I found this on other web sites re:John T Reed.

                      http://www.sowpub.com/cgi-bin/forum/....pl/read/24459
                      http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff65784.htm


                      Personally I found the Rich Dad Poor Dad book to be rather unspecific, but it gave me a lot of motivation. For me RDPD was the thing which got me started in investing and business.

                      Comment

                      • drelly
                        Fanatical
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 5838

                        #12
                        Hi Xris,

                        Ah yes, you're referring to the hype-merchants! I think Amway have a lot to answer for there as they seem to have made the "ra-ra" style of seminar very popular.

                        Reminds me of the first Amway presentation I went to when I was about 24. I kept asking to see their financials and they kept asking if I'd like another rum and coke? hehe...
                        You can find me at: Energise Web Design

                        Comment

                        • muppet
                          Banned
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 10593

                          #13
                          Hi Guys

                          Mr.John T. Reed has been done to death on most property forums.

                          Mr John T Reed DOES NOT LIKE any other person who deals or writes about property.

                          Just look at what he wrote about Dolf De Roo's book, Real Estate Riches. It wasn't very complimentary.

                          I think Mr John T. Reed is very jealous of what Robert Kiyosaki has achieved.

                          Regards

                          Comment

                          • kolzee
                            Opinionated
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 188

                            #14
                            What i found most frustrating was being 'referred' to other RK products (ie games and books) in the book that i bought.

                            If i buy a book i want them to fully explain topics they talk of rather than mention a topic and say to buy this book or that game to find out more.

                            Regarding the message however, what i found interesting was that reading the books made me think about and take action on concepts which i actually already understood. In fact nearly everything i read in the book i was thinking at the time, 'that's just obvious - i already know this' but once finished i took action whereas beforehand my action was limited.....strange that!!!

                            It seems that reading something like this is almost as effective as writing goals in prompting action!!

                            Comment

                            • SuperDad
                              Hamilton Event Organiser
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 4015

                              #15
                              Hi Dave,

                              I agree with Xris, who seems to be disagreeing in particular with your claim that:

                              Originally posted by drelly
                              Many people who read Rich Dad Poor Dad were inspired to act and change their attitude to money if not actually educated about specifically how to do it. To me this is enough.

                              It doesn't really matter to me whether Rich Dad is real or not. I don't even care if Kiyosaki is everything he says he is. The message is still useful.
                              I also take exception to the general principle endorsed here, namely that truth is not as important as utility. Don't get me wrong - I'm not claiming that it is never permissible to take liberties with the truth if doing so will benefit someone. I do this often with my children - but there is no question whether or not I have their interests in mind.

                              The problem with endorsing "bending of the truth" in the business sphere is that it is not clear that businesses have their client's interests in mind. Indeed, at the end of the day the primary obligation of any business is to further the interests of its shareholder/s. So when a business takes liberties with truth, we should not be blinded by the fact that their doing so has had the result that many people have been benefitted. At the end of the day, the business would not take liberties with the truth if it were not in the shareholders' interests that it do so. Any benefit to the public is merely incidental.

                              Regarding the RDPD book - I have not read it. However, I think that I can say that RK is not taking liberties with the truth in order to help other people. At the end of the day, if he has taken such liberites he has done so simply because it is in his own interest to do so. That many readers have benefitted from reading the book should not cloud this fact.

                              Paul.

                              Comment

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