Councils Holding the Country to Ransom

[Shalodge]

No that's most Councils I am referring too.

[flyernzl]

I feel a bit sorry for the Councils.

It is litigation-happy Lawyers you should be whining about.

[Perry]

A Masterly Policy of Inaction

Council Neglect Blamed for Collapse of Sacred Grove of Pohutukawa Trees
22 May 2017

Big trees fall hard, but few fall harder than a trio of century-old pohutukawa you've been asking Auckland Council to trim for 13 years. On May 17, two five-storey pohutukawa trees crashed to the ground in heavy rain and wind on the grounds of Mon Desir apartment block in Takapuna, on Auckland's North Shore. For Mon Desir residents, the loss of the trees was all the more infuriating for its predictability.

Since 2004, the Mon Desir residents have made eight unsuccessful applications to Auckland Council to trim pohutukawa on their gusty beachside location to ensure they are stable. "The fact that we've lost these trees is a direct result of the failure of Auckland Council and the arborist community to give consent to any sensible work to ensure the long-term survival of the trees," Mon Desir body corporate chair Don Mackintosh said.

[Shalodge]

This what the residents say but its not their tree or councils tree for that matter? The trees are on the Mon Desir site apparently and the Chairwoman had no concerns?

We'd been monitoring the trees all of the time we've been here and working closely with council arborists to make sure we can maintain the trees in as good as condition as possible, so they can be sustained, but it was just totally unexpected

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/north-shore-times/91339841/It-came-down-completely-unexpectedly-fallen-pohutukawa-lies-three-storeys-tall

There are always 2 sides to every story.

[Perry]

I though the second paragraph I quoted covered that?

"The fact that we've lost these trees is a direct result of the failure of Auckland Council and the arborist community to give consent to any sensible work to ensure the long-term survival of the trees," Mon Desir body corporate chair Don Mackintosh said.

[Shalodge]

My reading of the situation is that ..

The trees have special significance to the community and although they are on private land have gained protection under the AUP. i.e they are 'listed'. That being the case then consent is required to cut them down but not necessarily trim them. Whether a particular proposal to 'trim' amounts to significant changes to the look is subjective but from our experience (we have a fair few pohutukawa at Whakatane) any trimming makes pohutukawa look pretty manky! As a result Council is the meat in the sandwich as usual.

The biggie for me though is the statement from the complex chairwoman that the tree falling was 'unexpected' and is completely at odds with the body corporate chairs view that they were 'unstable'? Like most news stories .. it can depend on who you speak to and Council bashing is a very popular pastime among local rags.. It sell papers.

[Perry]

Doubtless one reporter-of-sorts looked from the south; the other from the north.

It's just sad that - for however many reasons - discussing the trimming became redundant because of procrastination, excuse-creation, obfuscation, inaction and fobbing-off. Likely with a bit of contrarian cultural claptrap thrown in to the mix.

[Shalodge]

And the point that you are making is very well made .. Councils have no courage and will not make decisions that will be unpopular with some because the Politian's causing all the hand wringing desperately want to be popular and please everyone. That not what democracy is.

[eri]

trees have a finite life

and fall over when they're done

because of recent tree hugging saving most every big old near-dead tree

lots are now regularly falling over

causing destruction + death

if the property owner has full responsibility for them

they should have full rights over them

after some car crushing falls in auckland parks

council has denied financial responsibility for repairs

but has at least started taking the issue of their own trees a little more seriously

pity they haven't scrapped the "listing" of private trees

wasn't it 1 guy in ak went round listing hundreds + hundreds of other peoples' trees?

[Davo36]

I disagree with all of that eri.

A tree can be 2000 years old right? And so the current owner is just a caretaker for a few dozen decades.

They don't have the right to cut down a really old tree, they belong to everyone. And they can't easily be replaced. Planting 100 seedlings is not the same as 1 1000 year old tree.

Past civilisations have actually ended because they have cut down all the trees.

Short term thinking. Myopia.

[Perry]

It's probably the nasty socialist aspects which rankle, David. Other people get to decide what you can and can't do, but bear no cost responsibility.

I.e. They say: you pay.

[Davo36]

Yes I get that.

But as a species, we need to be thinking long term, not short term. So we need to be thinking about if we have the resources to live well in say 500 years time, not 20.

Otherwise we may as well cut down all the trees right now, use up all the aquifers, kill every fish in the ocean etc. etc. Clearly that's nuts, but the thing is, so is cutting down large trees and other things like that. It's just that it's nuts over a longer term so people don't 'see it' or don't care to.

[eri]

not many 2000 year old trees in ak davo

even a big gum tree usually tops out around 200 years

and for the last 100 risks crushing anything around it

white oak tree in a city lasts about 150 years, dodgy for last 75?

pohutukawa can last 400+ plus years

but starts shedding those sideways limbs in big blows

imho

if "humanity" want to have "rights" over trees on private property in cities

the public purse should maintain them

[Bob Kane]

Past civilisations have actually ended because they have cut down all the trees.

That actually happened in San Francisco.
They chopped down every single tree in the town and surroundings.
Then the hippies came out, the gays, the druggies, the writers and the musicians.
And more recently, the IT geeks.
Who would have thought that would happen?

I was walking down Powell Street and saw some familiar looking trees - pohutukawas.
What the hell are they doing here?
Turns out NZ made a large donation of trees to San Fran to help replenish all the trees that had been removed earlier.

[Perry]

Tree Museum

But as a species, we need to be thinking long term, not short term.

No demur, there. I've planted thousands of trees of all sorts and I'm still at it. I'm worried I have a greenie addiction that means I have to stay away from plant and tree nurseries. Maybe I should see someone about it?