Councils Holding the Country to Ransom

[Wayne]

lots is grey
but providing infrastructure for growth isn't
it's essential
it's basically whu council's were invented
more important than preserving; heritage trees, streets, viewshafts etc.
do aucklanders care enough to vote in someone who will try to refocus council away from bling and backs to bricks + pipes

I think that is a bit simplistic.
I don't know anything about the 'viewshafts' except that they exist.
But if they were lost it is very hard to get them back.
Someone has to plan for the future - I'm not sure you would like the outcome if there were no rules and it was open season - anything goes.
Maybe they go too far but just providing raods and water etc is a bit simplistic.

Maybe it should be 'user pays' - so it gets added to the section cost because, after all, it is the new residents who are the users.

[Davo36]

So how do similar countries handle this with less angst? Or are they all a nightmare like Auckland?

Well all the countries that follow the smart growth model have the same problems. Which is why it's being thrown out overseas.

But our council loves it and it will only be removed by the government.

[Davo36]

When land is rezoned to residential it's value increases.
So someone makes some money for really doing nothing - a windfall at the cities expense.
I believe in Canada most, if not all, that windfall goes to the city and pays for the development of the infrastructure for the subdivision.

They only get this windfall, if things are mismanaged in the first place i.e.

- You install a MUL
- You refuse to let it be expanded in a timely manner.
- You then release small bits of it when the pressure is immense.

Contrast this with what happens in Germany where house prices are flat.

- They regularly survey they number of people in their region.
- They have land rezoned for residential, in abundance, years in advance.
- New sections are brought online in advance of construction needs.

It's really very simple. You just have to want to do it. And Auckland Council planners DO NOT.

So they are the reason people are sleeping in cars, garages etc. They are the cause of high house prices and high rents.

And very shortly the government is going to step in and sort them out. About time.

[Wayne]

Just imagine what would happen if they allowed people to build what they wanted where they wanted.
You would get screams of protest and demands for action from those who don't want whatever it is to happen.
You would get demands from ratepayers that councillors listen to them.
You would get the mess we have now.

[eri]

now you're imaging things

[Perry]

funding that rebuild [Christchurch] was the reason GST went from 10-15%

It went from 12.5 to 15%

[eri]

^

thanks

corrected

[Perry]

Which does the city need more? spin drs, self-serving surveys, water parks, monuments to state houses, fireworks in the park, music festivals, cultural-transgender-disability awareness programs, sister city programs in germany, korea, china, japan etc. or affordable housing

Read this story and weep.

"[Council] is not just about pipes and drains and roads," he said.
"It's about the social things that need to go on in communities."

[eri]

hamilton already has pretty high rates...

[Shalodge]

People don't like infrastructure .. Its expensive , makes a mess, is costly to maintain and holds them up on the road. They would rather spend money on pretty stuff like parks and statues and sports complexes ... right up until the toilet doesn't flush and no water comes out of the tap .. Then they will demand action and accountability. Anyone who campaigns on spending money on core infrastructure will not get elected!

Has anyone every mentioned that cities get the councils they elect? So who is responsible for Len Brown and the ACC ?? Mirror anyone?

[eri]

yeah that's the sad thing

sort of the death of democracy

as foretold by tytler, or not....

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.

From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,

with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler

[Shalodge]

Democracy.. now we getting to the heart of the matter. Yes Democracy will die when it is not exercised responsibly.. (Foretold by Russell). I remember my parents voting when I was very young. They got dressed up and voted with care and an eye to the future. To them is was the most important thing they could do and took it seriously. The war was still in their minds and their national pride was obvious.

Treason was still on the statue books and was punishable by death. I can only imagine the outrage if our flag had been burnt on the streets. How far we have come and how different things are now. The price of everything and the value of nothing. I often look at the youth today and wonder what happened to us, where did it go so wrong?

Russell

---

Did we go wrong and, if so, where did we? Picking up on Russell's plaint, I've initiated a new thread on that very subject, here.

[eri]

[sidinz]

I get sick of people bleating about how intensification works overseas. Intensification works overseas because they have decent public transport - underground or overhead light rail. That's the only way it would work.

I live on a road that was built as a quiet, suburban street. Over the years it has become a major thoroughfare/urban route. Since the Stonefields development up the road, I have seen the peak hour traffic volumes increase to the point where it is already very painful and yet there is still a long way to go with many more houses due to be built there.

Yet the council, in their infinite wisdom, designated this road for intensification in the initial draft plan, plopping a 'town centre' or whatever it was called, bang in the middle of the worst traffic chaos. Up to three stories and squished-in terraced housing. (And right in front of a Significant Ecological Area protected zone, to boot.)

They seriously need to drive the roads, in morning rush hour, that they want to intensify, before making any decisions.

More and more research is coming out. too, about how unhealthy it is - mentally and emotionally - to live in intensified cities divorced from nature. Is that really what we want for our future?

[Wayne]

I get sick of people bleating about how intensification works overseas. Intensification works overseas because they have decent public transport - underground or overhead light rail. That's the only way it would work.

I agree - cities overseas don't really compare - intenstification has to be coupled with the other things you need (green space, transport etc).

(And right in front of a Significant Ecological Area protected zone, to boot.)

That will have to go - some here feel that the council should have no role in protection for the future.
Just provide infrastructure and collect rubbish.