Minimum wage goes up by 25 cents an hour

[WBuffett]

Ten dollars is excellent news for these people. I can feed myself, on very wholesome food, for 3 days on less than that.

I can remember when I came out of school, nearly 50 years ago now, being on a very low wage. Whenever I got a wage increase... maybe a dollar or so, I went straight down to the bank and banked every cent of it.

Maybe I'm generalising a bit here but I strongly suspect that this $10 will buy another packet of smokes or a couple more beers in the pub.

Talking about the good old days is fine and all, but in those days you did not have the expenses you do now like hps on computers magwheels, car speakers, etc not to mention it did not really matter what you wore, nowadays you have to keep up with the fashion if you want to stay ahead, so you can't really compare the minimum wage back then to now.

[Tan]

WBuffett, you have tunnel vision.

Drive past your local bakery at 5.30am and note the lights are on. Drive past again at 4.30pm and note the door finally being locked. They are now off home to do their books.

The asian families that run dairys & fish & chip shops use all family members. Even grandparents are roped in to babysit. The free labour is the only way they can afford to send their kids to university.
(hope I'm not being racist - I admire them for their work ethic)

Think about a sole trader plumber with 1 or 2 workers. Who does the after hours/weekends/public holiday callouts? And then goes home to work out the employees PAYE?

They don't have time to drive the streets in a flash car and frequent pubs.

I have proved the percentage you refer to is smaller than the percentage I see.

[WBuffett]

WBuffett, you have tunnel vision.

Drive past your local bakery at 5.30am and note the lights are on. Drive past again at 4.30pm and note the door finally being locked. They are now off home to do their books.

The asian families that run dairys & fish & chip shops use all family members. Even grandparents are roped in to babysit. The free labour is the only way they can afford to send their kids to university.
(hope I'm not being racist - I admire them for their work ethic)

Think about a sole trader plumber with 1 or 2 workers. Who does the after hours/weekends/public holiday callouts? And then goes home to work out the employees PAYE?

They don't have time to drive the streets in a flash car and frequent pubs.

I have proved the percentage you refer to is smaller than the percentage I see.

A question for you; how many times when you have been to one of those dairys or fish and chip shops where there is a family member serving you have they rung your transaction up on the till ? The till is usually just opened and closed, straight away there they are earning a extra 39% by not paying tax and probably declaring a loss, with their family members being paid under the table so applying for every benefit they can, so they are in effect earning double that the hard working non-family member employee is.
When a sole trader plumber charges $100 just for the call out before he actually does anything then I don't think he minds working on the weekends or the public holidays, with that kind of money who wouldnt?

[Tan]

Believe what you want to believe.
If I were you, I'd stop driving the streets so I don't see capitalist fatcats in their expensive cars, and stop going to pubs so the sight of the exploited workers serving the aforementioned doesn't upset me.

[WBuffett]

Believe what you want to believe.
If I were you, I'd stop driving the streets so I don't see capitalist fatcats in their expensive cars, and stop going to pubs so the sight of the exploited workers serving the aforementioned doesn't upset me.

You haven't answered the question I see, but your lack of answer I believe does confirm my statement.

I dont begrudge anyone driving a expensive car if they have worked hard and deserve it then why not spend their hard earned money on a car, but if they have done that on the back of exploited workers then yes I have a problem with it.

[Keithw]

Scarcasm award of the Week !!!!

Talking about the good old days is fine and all, but in those days you did not have the expenses you do now like hps on computers magwheels, car speakers, etc not to mention it did not really matter what you wore, nowadays you have to keep up with the fashion if you want to stay ahead, so you can't really compare the minimum wage back then to now.

Luv it !!!!

[Aston]

In fact ten dollars will buy 3 or 4 packets of vegetable seeds and feed an entire family for a season.

[WBuffett]

In fact ten dollars will buy 3 or 4 packets of vegetable seeds and feed an entire family for a season.

Umm no, not everyone can afford a gardener, espcially if you're on minimum wage.

[Tan]

You do live a priviledged life WBuffett. Ever tried burying a few seeds yourself? Some grow even if not watered and fertilised - through weeds.

[Branca]

LOL at everyone! Seriously though, surely the reality is that business owners are a real mix, some might be greedy exploitative fatcats, others just hardworking, law-abiding people trying to bring home the bacon. Many may be somewhere in the middle, perhaps being hardworking and not exploiting their employees but cutting a few corners and bending the rules here and there!

It's a bit cynical to assume that *everyone* in a certain group is UNethical, and naive to assume that everyone in a given group IS ethical or innocent. Ethical behaviour and lack thereof can be found amongst employers and employees alike don't ya think?

It's funny how stereotypes, as well as our own personal experiences, can polarise and even prejudice the way we see things (myself included ).

[Austrokiwi]

On the idea that take away stores are operating under the counter transactions to avoid tax. IRD is very good at estimating how much turnover a business should be doing and if it doesn't meet that estimate they are not shy about sending a please explain letter. That doesn't mean that a few business's might not try it.

[eri]

if it is "exploitation" to pay a worker for their labor

surely it is a greater "exploitation" to get a series of workers to pay off the mortgage of the building they are living in

but the worst "exploitation" must be that of the able-bodied non-worker who gets the gov. to pay them for their non-labor AND the roof over their heads and eventually their pension on the backs of all those who HAVE worked

[Son of G]

Trying to get the thread back on track

Some think the increase is too low.
Others like Don Brash think the minimum wage is too high.

What I am interested in is how much is enough for a minimum wage?
Outside of the "inflation adjustment" cycle how should it be set?

I think calling for a round $15 is too simplistic, although it makes a good sound byte for the mass media.

After tax:

• Should it be only just enough for a single person who is flatting with others?
• Should it be enough to support Mum, Dad and a child living in a cheep flat to save a little, give a little and balance the budget with the rest?

In the late 90's I had a brief stint on the dole. No dole was available when working 30 or more hours as that was classed as full time work. At that time, for someone on the minimum wage, the difference between 29 hours and 30 hours was about $20 less in the hand because the dole had not been fully abated when one worked 29 hours at the minimum wage. The abatement resulted in a marginal tax rate of about 85% up to 29 hours per week.

• Should the minimum wage be set such that the dole for a single person is fully abated by the time they are working 30 hours per week?

[Dunning]

A quick comparison
New NZ Minimum wage is 40% of average NZ wage
Aus minimum wage is 45% of average Aus wage
US Minimum wage is 36% of average US wage

Haven't worked it out of net pay because I don't care that much about it, but 40% of average wage sounds like an easy number to use. Adjust it every year based on the last years average wage. Simple, clean, harder for unions to argue against. Benefit could then be at 30% of average wage.

[PC]

What a complete waste of time minimum wage is.
Just say first $30K of earnings is tax free.
Or better yet the first $200K.
Or even better flat 10% tax on every dollar earnt - no stuffing around.

But then what would all the lawyers & accountants do.
Besides that wouldn't be favourable for the rich for whom the laws are written for.