Ring Fencing Matters

[elguapo]

Easier to blame-shift the problem onto investors than address the issues the politician have caused themselves.
Gets a little tedious.

Politicians looking for the easy answer that benefits them at the voting booth, but creates an even bigger problem down the road? Can't believe they would behave that way.....

[Bob Kane]

Jacinda will try to bring in all the property tax/regulations by Christmas.
They've got all the details sown up and ready to roll out.
Not only that, they actually believe they will win this election quite easily.

[big fella]

Not only that, they actually believe they will win this election quite easily.

really ? wont they need NZ First as a coalition partner to be in power based on recent polls ?

no one knows what Winston is going to do

[Wayne]

really ? wont they need NZ First as a coalition partner to be in power based on recent polls ?

no one knows what Winston is going to do

Certainly they would need to win and be in a position to form a government.
So many now talking as if the election has happened.
I'm over it really - I'm voting tommorrow and then bury my head.

[Learning]

It's the same for me as every election. At most I support less than half of every party's policies. So I'm left wishing I could pick and choose bits of each, while being balanced and cost realistic of course. The more they open their mouths the more I sway the other way. A blindfold and wild stab at the voting paper is in order I guess.

[Davo36]

It's the same for me as every election. At most I support less than half of every party's policies. So I'm left wishing I could pick and choose bits of each, while being balanced and cost realistic of course. The more they open their mouths the more I sway the other way. A blindfold and wild stab at the voting paper is in order I guess.

This is how I am.

Funny how some seem to support all that their party does. Or at least, they're totally definite about which party is best for them. Maybe means they are voting on one issue?

[Nick G]

I've done 4 different "how do I think" quizzes and been told I should support TOP, ACT, National and the Greens.

The last one gave percentages and I agreed with 61% of one party, 60% of another, 57% of another and 54% of another.

[Perry]

What percentage was there of this?

[mrsym0r]

Populist BS. Right up there with Lanthanide's sophistry. No, I don't miss the point. Here's a post from a PT discussion thread on the topic. Here's an excerpt from that thread:

OK, I give in. What is "Lanthanide's sophistry"?

[Perry]

Beguiling BS

A sophistry is a clever, possibly ingenious rationale advanced in a debate but is something which is actually fallacious or deceptive. Or possibly both.

An example is that insulating houses will make them warmer and drier. It does not, but that sophistry sounds good and the do-gooders rely on the bulk of the populace being totally blind to their BS. All insulation does is slow the rate of transfer of heat or cold between two points of differing temperatures. Insulation may even increase dampness in a home, under certain circumstances.

As Peter observed in this post, all the insulation did in that case was produce a cold-but-insulated house. (Post excerpt below)

Lanthanide is the screen name of another PT Forumite.

The tenants were home, sitting inside the house bundled up in jackets and blankets. Visible moisture was running down inside the windows pooling on the windowsills that had recently been painted. All in all, a picture of misery and discomfort.

Now this was at a house where just 18 months ago I had paid out quite a substantial sum to have new ceiling and underfloor insulation installed up to current standards and also had a heat pump installed. I am talking multiples of thousands of dollars invested here, and now there were my tenants squatting and shivering.

This should not be. According to Dr Roger Tuck and Prof Howden-Chapman all I had to do was to put my hand deep into my wallet to pay for all this work to be done and my tenants would then, for all time, be living the life of Riley in a cosy warm house, their children happy and healthy and no longer being a burden on the public health system and the taxpayers pocket. I am told that this must be true, as Phil Twyford agrees with them.

So why has this utopian dream failed so dismally? When in doubt, ask the tenants, so I did. “Oh, we can’t afford to run the heatpump, it costs too much,” they replied. So there you have it. Contrary to the often stated and firmly held myth, when you insulate a cold house you then actually have a cold insulated house.

A common way to get a sophistry to be accepted is think carefully about how the argument is defined. This thread title is a good example, drawn as it was from a media headline.

LLs do not get "tax breaks." Like all other for-profit businesses, LLs get to deduct their expenses from their total income and pay income tax on the remainder. So all for-profit businesses get [so-called] tax breaks, which in reality is not a 'break' of any kind other than a break from the truth.

[flyernzl]

I see even the VoteCompass survey being heavily promoted by TV1 is still perpetuating the myth about 'tax advantages enjoyed by landlords' !!

[Anthonyacat]

LLs do not get "tax breaks." Like all other for-profit businesses, LLs get to deduct their expenses from their total income and pay income tax on the remainder. So all for-profit businesses get [so-called] tax breaks, which in reality is not a 'break' of any kind other than a break from the truth.

As I've mentioned previously on the forum here, given specific rules relating only to property which make capital gains taxable (change of zoning, relation to builder, most recently Bright Line) property investors are tax disadvantaged compared to all other types of for-profit business and investment, who get their capital gains tax-free unless purchased with the intention to sell.

EDIT:
The main advantage we do get is a land-friendly banking environment, allowing us to harvest the capital gains efficiently.
Good luck to anyone borrowing anything on a nice safe diversified share fund*, or more than 30-50% on the purchase of a profitable business.


*aware you can margin lend on specific stocks, but that's insanely volatile)

[Don't believe the Hype]

Anthony - you can add to your tax disadvantage list the fact we pay GST on everything but as landlords we can't claim any of that cost back as we don't charge GST on rent.

I think I would have paid $100k+ GST this year and can't claim a cent!!

[Anthonyacat]

Anthony - you can add to your tax disadvantage list the fact we pay GST on everything but as landlords we can't claim any of that cost back as we don't charge GST on rent.

I think I would have paid $100k+ GST this year and can't claim a cent!!

Not something I'd even considered, actually, but that is an excellent point. However, counterweighted by the fact that if we charged GST on rents, net rents to the landlord would be lower, as the gross payment by the tenant wouldn't be able to be 15% higher.

I wonder can the banks claim back GST on their costs, given most/all of their revenue is GST exempt also?

[Wayne]

Anthony - you can add to your tax disadvantage list the fact we pay GST on everything but as landlords we can't claim any of that cost back as we don't charge GST on rent.

I think I would have paid $100k+ GST this year and can't claim a cent!!

Can't claim back but don't have to pay on the rent either.
Let's face it - if tenants would pay 15% more for rent (GST) then we'd be charging them already, not waiting for the GST excuse.