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Trusts - a couple of questions

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  • Julian
    Fanatical
    • Jan 2005
    • 1524

    #1

    Trusts - a couple of questions

    1. How should a trader pay him/herself?

    With a trading trust some of the profits will have to be paid to the trader as compensation for the trader's efforts (and in order for the trader to eat). How is this best done? Does the trader (who is also the settlor and a trustee and a beneficiary) submit an invoice to the trust, or is he/she retained on wages by the trust, or may he/she get a distribution as a beneficiary?

    ACC obligations (if any) must also be taken into account.

    Bearing these thoughts in mind what would be the better way to mimimise costs and time? Could a distribution be paid out out to just one beneficiary - the one who had effectively created the wealth? Would this negate ACC obligations? Would it effectively turn the trust into a sham?

    2. After the resignation of a corporate trustee, is the settlor obliged to take on another corporate trustee, or is it perfectly acceptable to have just one person as the sole trustee?

    In this case the settlor and the trustee are the same person, and also one of four beneficiaries.

    3. If a person has accrued several mill worth of low geared buy-and-hold property in a LAQC structure is it worth bothering with a family trust at this late stage, bearing in mind gifting can only happen at the rate of $27k per year (with no spouse)?

    Assuming no interest was payable this would take at least two lifetimes to gift all the property's equity over at todays values. Even with a Hawkins clause utilising an eight-year restraint there would be very little protection from a serious claim.

    4. Would it be possible to marry someone, get them to sign pre-nuptials, keeping them at arm's length from the loot, but nevertheless speed up the gifting to $54k pa?

    This last question is academic only. I imagine the pre-nups defeat the ability to gift. I can't see how you could gift what isn't yours (unless you're a politician).

    Julian
    Gimme $20k. You will receive some well packaged generic advice that will put you on the road to riches beyond your wildest dreams ...yeah right!
  • spaceman
    Banned
    • Feb 2004
    • 2817

    #2
    I'll have a stab at it

    1. I would say the best way is to set up a company and to have that company pay you a wage and meet ACC obligations etc.....this should be done at the start. If this hasn't been done to be honest I'm not sure of the best way foreward, perhaps drawing a line in the sand and moving ahead with the above is best....perhaps not ...good luck.

    2. Yes you can have one person as sole trustee.

    3. The protection is there still, as you no longer own the assets the trust does. True the trust owes you a debt, but you aren't limited to $27k per year (you just need to pay tax) and with the right clauses you aren't forced to call up that debt to satisfy other potential creditors.

    4. I'm sure it would be. But I think it would be cheaper and easier to just pay the extra tax on any amount above $27k you wanted to gift...from memory it's 25% so at $54k you'd be liable to pay $6.75k tax.....much cheaper and easier than a wife.....unless of course you factor in the side benefits

    Cheers
    Spaceman

    Comment

    • Perry
      Geriatric
      • Sep 2004
      • 16861

      #3
      A read of the Relationship Property Act 1976 seems moot.
      (used to be the Matrimonial Property Act)

      It seems to be a minefield. My guess is that any spousal-
      type 'arrangement' would allow a Court to order any
      person who held a 'pre-arrangement' property portfolio,
      to pay (or give ownership of property to) the other
      person, where the other person 'contributed' to the
      property-owner's PI management by virtue of "the
      management of the household and the performance
      of household duties." Whether or not that separate
      property was in a Trust or company.

      S21 Spouses or [partners] may contract out . . .
      may indeed be a prudent course of action.

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