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Settled on our 1st INVEST Property

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  • Niall
    Forum Junkie
    • Apr 2006
    • 380

    #1

    Settled on our 1st INVEST Property

    Hello everybody.

    Well its been about 7 months since I stumbled across this site. Has been an enormous educational tool.

    WE have just settled on our 1st investment property. We had initially purchased in the hutt in 2004 with 16k of our own money. This was to be home and we lived there for almost a year. It is now rented out so by techinally is our first IP, but I liked the heading of the thread ....

    Purchaed that one for $157,500. Reg Val Sep 06 $250,000.

    Bit of Background.

    For 3-4 months we had set ourselves a target of buying renovating and onselling so as to get a big enough deposit to make any IPs cash flow positive. So we learned during this time that every man and his dog here in Wellington was doing the same thing. So we secured zilch, nada, nothing.

    We were lucky enough to meet with investors in the city who turned out to be a godsend (obviously) Everyone who comes along to the Wellington deal crunching, breakfast meetings and so on take a bow

    So to the present deal.

    Changed tact about 3 weeks ago and looked for larger add value opportunities either already split into multi units or with the possibility to.

    Found one that week!!!

    Karori - City End. Croydon Street.

    Purpose build home and income.
    5 bed up, huge living area. drive on access, garage, carpad. wrap around deck/walkway. great sun.

    2 bed down, outside grassed are. great sun.


    Plan of action:

    Spruce up top flat, new kitchen, use some of living area for new bedroom. general cosmetic paint up. new banister for deck.

    Open up bottome flat kitchen/dining. Claustrophobic at the minute. As built on a hill access some extra space downstairs in the angle of the hill.


    The Figures:

    Currently
    Top Tennanted: $525pw
    Bottom Tenanted: $220pw
    Garage Tenanted: $25pw
    Purchase Price: $540,000
    Government Value: $540,000

    current Yield on purchae price is 7.4%. gross

    All tenacies to expire in Jan. Refurb to be compleated by early feb. Tennanted in full by mid Feb.

    New Rentals
    Top flat $670
    Bottom Flat $250
    Garage $25

    New Yield on purchase price will be 9% gross.



    Have calculated that with all the bove figures unfortunatly our 2 investment properties are negativly geared still



    To the tune of $24.45 per week overall

    So we are controling almost 900k of property for $24.45 per week.

    To make it even better got the agent to give us $1000 to close the deal.

    So actually that shortfall per week is covered with this $1000 cheque for 40 weeks. And by then its nearly rentall increase time.

    What a RUSH!!!!!! I 2 years we turned $16 of our own money into 900k of property.

    I know I am going on a bit so will put the laptop away and do the hoovering

    Best Wishes,


    Niall
  • whitt
    Fanatical
    • Jun 2005
    • 3922

    #2
    Congratulations on making it.
    So actually that shortfall per week is covered with this $1000 cheque for 40 weeks.
    I like the different persepctive on this too. Very positive and inspiring.

    Comment

    • xris
      Fanatical
      • Nov 2005
      • 3283

      #3
      Hello Niall,

      I admire your energy and enthusiasm. Often that is all that is needed to succeed.

      Three questions.

      What are you doing with the loan you used to buy your first rental, the one that was originally your home?

      How do you know you will get the predicted new rent for the second rental after you have spruced it up?

      How long do you plan having the second rental vacant while you spruce it up, and have you taken this vacancy period into account when doing your sums?

      xris

      Comment

      • rmjb
        Opinionated
        • Jul 2006
        • 135

        #4
        Hi Niall

        Well done mate

        Watch behind you, the 2nd or 3rd one will creep up on you very unexpectitly!!!

        Cheers

        Robin
        To be great you must learn from those that are great.

        Comment

        • Niall
          Forum Junkie
          • Apr 2006
          • 380

          #5
          Originally posted by xris View Post
          Hello Niall,

          I admire your energy and enthusiasm. Often that is all that is needed to succeed.

          Three questions.

          What are you doing with the loan you used to buy your first rental, the one that was originally your home?

          How do you know you will get the predicted new rent for the second rental after you have spruced it up?

          How long do you plan having the second rental vacant while you spruce it up, and have you taken this vacancy period into account when doing your sums?

          xris
          Thank you.

          Question 1. Doing with it? Can you clarify that Q.
          Question 2. Rental Assesment
          Question 3a. 2 weeks
          Questoin 3b. Yes.

          Cheers,

          Niall

          Comment

          • xris
            Fanatical
            • Nov 2005
            • 3283

            #6
            Hello Niall,

            Q2 and Q3b...fine

            Q3a........... Although I have not seen the property, I would think that if you want to spruce up a five/six bdrm house on two levels, then get tenants to move in, a two week vacancy is possibly woefully inadequate.

            Tenants are often wary of signing up to a property unless they first see the finished product. Also, many 'good' tenants will first have to give 21 days notice to a current landlord. Also, unexpected and unplanned for maintenance always crops up.

            From a reading of your post,I have assumed that you are, or plan to, claim the interest on the loan you took out to buy property one as a tax break.

            This would be a mistake. It is non-deductible.

            For that reason you are running your business in a non tax efficient way. Seeing as you both pay a lot of tax, this is unfortunate.

            Effectively you are not receiving approximately
            $2,500 pa that you would otherwise be entitled to.

            You will need to rearrange that ?$135,000 loan in some way, but this is easier said than done.

            xris
            Last edited by xris; 17-12-2006, 01:06 PM.

            Comment

            • BusyLizzy
              ***** Junkie
              • Apr 2005
              • 2311

              #7
              Hi Niall, and congrats on your purchase! I know this will be a very exciting time for you.

              Just a comment on vacancy rates for a 5 brm house. I don't know the Wellington area at all, but I would assume it typically takes longer to find suitable tenants in a larger, 5brm house so you may need to increase your vacancy rate.

              I have a 5 brm in Mangere and have had to find tenants twice. Both times it took 3-4 weeks to find tenants that could afford the rent AND that I deemed suitable. The first time I was lucky in that I had go them moved in prior to settlement when I purchased. And the second time I had 1-2 days between tenants - but that was only because my new tenant was able to move in immediately rather than wait for a notice period on their previous rental.

              So... whilst I am happy allowing 2 weeks vacancy for my 2 brm rental, I think 3-4 weeks on a 5 brm is more realistic. You might want to take that into consideration when doing your numbers.

              Good luck!
              Lisa

              Comment

              • Stevegoodey
                Fanatical
                • Mar 2005
                • 1136

                #8
                Hi Naill,

                Nice work, sounds like the sort of property I would have been interested in, not sure i'm enjoying the competition on my patch.
                Lucky there's loads of houses for everyone.

                On the tenanting issue, In my experience Jan/Feb is the very best time of year to tenant in Wellington.

                It's warm, dry (ish) and full of students, so go hard out and fine a good 12 month lease.
                This way If they only stay the term of the lease you will be re tenanting at the same time next year.

                I have also found that 5 bedroom properties suitable for families are in demand so you should have little trouble finding a tenant suitable.

                Also consider embassy's as tenants there are loads of them and they like the city end of Karori.

                Cheers

                Steve

                Comment

                • rmjb
                  Opinionated
                  • Jul 2006
                  • 135

                  #9
                  Niall

                  Can we get a walk trough??

                  Ill have to move out of Wainui soon and into the 500k+ price bracket, to keep Steve happy you see

                  Cheers

                  Robin
                  To be great you must learn from those that are great.

                  Comment

                  • Jumpin
                    Fanatical
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 1293

                    #10
                    Well done Niall, - Bl%%dy fantastic mate! Keen to see more details at the next deal cruncher!

                    Tim

                    Comment

                    • artemis
                      Fanatical
                      • May 2004
                      • 3102

                      #11
                      Originally posted by xris View Post

                      From a reading of your post,I have assumed that you are, or plan to, claim the interest on the loan you took out to buy property one as a tax break.

                      This would be a mistake. It is non-deductible.

                      For that reason you are running your business in a non tax efficient way. Seeing as you both pay a lot of tax, this is unfortunate.

                      Effectively you are not receiving approximately
                      $2,500 pa that you would otherwise be entitled to.

                      You will need to rearrange that ?$135,000 loan in some way, but this is easier said than done.

                      xris
                      This is no longer the case. IRD now allow deduction of expenses and also depreciation in this situation.

                      Comment

                      • xris
                        Fanatical
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 3283

                        #12
                        Hello artemis,

                        When I wrote it I had a nagging doubt in my mind. I seem to recall that something about this had been discussed a while ago. Could you please elaborate on this point? Something tells me that if it is now allowed there will be all sorts of conditions attached by the IRD.

                        xris

                        Comment

                        • artemis
                          Fanatical
                          • May 2004
                          • 3102

                          #13
                          I first saw this mentioned in Mary Holm's column last year or thereabouts, and she was quoting IRD. At the time I checked the rental property booklet IRD puts out, and it was covered. Don't have time to look right now, but the booklet had something along the lines of an example where a change of use from owner occupied to rental took place during the tax year.

                          Comment

                          • spaceman
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 2817

                            #14
                            This happened to me ....shifted out and started renting PPOR

                            This was in Aug 2000 and I have claimed the interest on that loan as an expense from the day it was first tenanted and every day since.

                            Here's my take on the tax deductibility issue.

                            From a reading of your post,I have assumed that you are, or plan to, claim the interest on the loan you took out to buy property one as a tax break.

                            This would be a mistake. It is non-deductible


                            This is wrong .... my reasoning goes like this. The IRD allow deuctibility for expenses, that are incurred while generating income.

                            The PPOR is now generating income, the mortgage cost is now a expense relating to the production of that income and therefore tax deductible. It doesn't matter that the home was originally a PPOR and the mortgage was taken out on that basis.

                            This has worked for me since 2000 without any comment from my accountant in relation to any problems of deductibility.... or any problems from the IRD themselves.

                            Take the case of somebody who borrows money to buy a nice boat .... gets sacked and then decides to start a fishing charter business .... was the loan originally tax deductible... NO ...is it now ... YES!!

                            Cheers
                            Spaceman

                            Comment

                            • BusyLizzy
                              ***** Junkie
                              • Apr 2005
                              • 2311

                              #15
                              Spaceman - did you sell your PPOR to a Trust or LAQC? Or have you kept it in your own name?

                              And have IRD audited this and said it's OK?

                              I am in a similar situation - I have rented our my PPOR, but have held off selling it to my LAQC or trust as my plans are a bit fluid this year. I may move back in temporarily later this year before either selling it (unlikely!) or selling it to a trust or LAQC and formally treating it as a rental. Advice that I had was that unless I onsold it to a LAQC/Trust, I couldn't claim the interest. This has been an ongoing quandry for me, so I'm interested in your take on this.
                              Lisa

                              Comment

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