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Originally posted by Wayne
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Yup that's why I had to move to a VOIP provider to retain my old ph number when I moved a whole 10km - to another city! WXC expalined very clearly to me that I wouldn't have a phone without power in an emergency. *shrug* who you gonna call? Like the phone lines won't be overloaded at all when the big one hits Wellington. Far better off getting a quick text or 3 off - they seemed to work quite well the last couple of shakes here -
Move - if I needed to rent it would be in the tenancy agreement that the the LL would agree to a UFB connection being installed. I work from home, VDSL is OK, but I am about to arrange a Fibre connection.Originally posted by Bob Kane View Post
I've actually put the ability to connect to broadband as a condition of purchase on houses - to give myself time to check out connection options to a specific property. Yes it matters more than practically any other utility except powerComment
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I agree and this is going to happen more and more often. Landlords who want good tenants will have to play ball.Originally posted by lissie View Post
As an aside, my internet connection (naked VDSL2 - I live rural) is more important than a power line, thanks to my off the grid power system :-)Comment
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We recently rented our previous PPOR - nice modern townhouse - no heatpump but it has UFB - that was the selling point over and over with potential tenants - rented it at $20 more than next door (identical property) - probably that was a factor. That and we allowed pets.
I think some landlords need to remember they are in a service business - provide the facilities the tenants want and funny enough they will want to be your customers.
Fair point about the power- if solar power starts to drop - we may look into it tooComment
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Exactly.Originally posted by lissie View Post
LLs don't have to supply UFB so there is no right to it.Comment
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No doubt the same landlords who would avoid having to include running water and plumbing if they could.Originally posted by Bob Kane View PostLast edited by PTWhatAGreatForum; 27-03-2015, 11:41 PM.Comment
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Ah, you can tell the difference between a right and a preference.
Try using the correct term next time.
I think you mean running water and power?Comment
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Every time I look in this forum I reflect how lucky I am to be no longer paying rent to [insert appropriate description]Originally posted by Bob Kane View PostAh, you can tell the difference between a right and a preference.
Try using the correct term next time.
I think you mean running water and power?
I know there is some landlords out there who think it's fine not to supply a connectable phone line because the tenant can use a cellphone, right? They never follow their own advice though, no doubt due to how expensive a crazy idea like that is.Comment
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Ok, would you prefer a tenant can select their own utility provider (power, phone, cable etc) or let the LL select the provider?Comment
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We're talking about the ability to connect, not provider choice.Originally posted by Bob Kane View PostComment
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I do UFB provisioning for Spark Digital (formerly Gen-i). I know an awful lot about the entire process and I deal with Chorus and other local fibre companies every working day so I may be able to assist the OP with some info here. My apologies in advance - this is a VERY long response......
The general end to end process is as follows;
1. The end customer (occupant) applies for UFB services through their ISP.
2. The ISP carries out an address check to determine if UFB services are available at the address.
3. If UFB is available, the ISP issues a request for UFB service to Chorus (or UFF, Enable Northpower depending on location) for UFB services to be installed
4. Chorus validate the request, and check that the address is valid (it must be a legal address with a Lot & DP number as noted on a local body or council database)
5. Chorus determine if the address is part of a Multi Dwelling Building, on a Cross-Lease, or subject to a Right Of Way. If the answer is yes, the order proceeds to the next step. If it is a standalone property, the job proceeds direct to step 11.
6. The order is sent to the Chorus consent team. Their job is to gain high level written consent (known as MDU/ROW Consent) from every property owner who could be affected by the installation, either directly or indirectly. Every owner with an interest in the shared property must give their consent in writing otherwise the order will be rejected and cancelled. Chorus allow up to 3 months for this.
7. Once consent is gained in full, the order is sent to the Chorus network design team to design how UFB services can be delivered from the street to EVERY dwelling covered by the consent.
8. When the design is complete, checks are done and quotes from sub-contractors are called for to ensure the entire MDU, ROW or cross-lease can be cabled within the budget set by the crown.
9. The job is referred to the Chorus network build team. Their job is to work off the designs to install the network from the street to the drop off point on the boundary of the MDU, ROW or cross-lease.
10. Once network build is complete, the work is quality checked, and all Chorus' systems and network maps are updated to reflect that the network is present and ready for connection.
11. The original customer's individual order is then assigned to a scoper and a site visit is arranged. The scoper meets with the end customer onsite, and the full installation plan is formulated, from the boundary right up to the connection/termination point inside the home. The scoper asks the end user to confirm they are happy with the proposed work, and they are asked to sign the UFB Installation Consent Form.
12. If the scoper found that civil works were required for the individual connection, a team may arrive to install ducting from the boundary to the entry point on the customer's dwelling. This can involve trenching, directional drilling, underground thrusting, concrete cutting and reinstatement, but this will all have been noted on the scoper's site plan.
13. Final installation is booked in, where a technician will visit to install the equipment on the outside and inside of the dwelling, and he will 'blow' the actual fibre strand down the duct from the roadside cabinet all the way to the inside of the house. The fibre strand is terminated in the Optical Network Terminal on the inside wall of the house, and the customer's modem is plugged into this. The technician then calls back to base for the connection to be commissioned. The fibre is livened up, the technician tests it and confirms it is working and the customer is asked to sign the End User Terms.
14. Chorus (or Enable, UFF, Northpower) advise the ISP that the UFB service is connected, and that ISP then commences billing the end customer.
From what the OP has said, is would seem his/her rental property does not share any common land or shared access, therefore would not have required MDU/ROW Consent, so Chorus would have had no cause to get in touch directly. The order would have proceeded directly to Step 11 as outlined above, and a scoper would have visited the property.
This is where it gets interesting, as the tenant would have been asked by the scoper to sign the UFB Installation Consent form. This form has a declaration at the bottom where the end customer is asked to confirm that "If I am not the owner of the property, I have obtained the consent of the owner for the installation works"
The terms printed on the UFB Installation Consent form further state: "If you do not own your premises, you must ensure that the owner or owners consent to us installing, locating, accessing, operating and owning our network. You will be responsible to us for any loss we suffer if you do not ensure this. You agree that, if asked, you will provide us with written evidence of that consent".
An online copy of the UFB Installation Consent form can be found on the Chorus website. This forum does not allow me to post the link.
Chorus will have acted in good faith after the UFB Installation Consent form was signed by your tenant. I further believe you would be within your rights to request for the UFB cabling to be removed or relocated, and any damage made good, all at no cost to you on account that you did not authorise the installation in its current location or manner. Any cost involved in completing such remedial work should be passed on by Chorus direct to the tenant as their declaration was false, and there should be no out of pocket cost incurred by you.
In regards to removing copper, this depends on the retailer servicing the property and is a complicated issue. I have UFB broadband services at home, but my phone service is still delivered via copper cable. When Voice Over Fibre (VOF) service becomes available through Spark, I will most likely take it up as it is likely to be cheaper than copper voice. The copper will most likely not be removed from the ground, but I will probably not be allowed to return to copper voice while I live at this address. I could however request a second phone line to be delivered to my house via that copper cable if I ever needed a second line in the future. This is all up in the air and no set rules apply for every situation.
Other posters are correct - some new subdivisions do not have copper lines at all, so the only option is UFB broadband and voice over fibre. It's the way the world is going and some people have no choice. In a few years even less people will have a choice. Uninterruptible power supplies are pretty cheap if a working phone line is paramount to people in this situation. Your power company doesn't offer you a back up option - you have to buy your own power generator for emergencies right? The same will be true for phone services in the future. It's just how it is.
If I can be of any further assistance to the OP or you require more information please just let me know.:
PS: The views expressed in this post are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer Spark NZ Ltd.Comment
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MichaelNZ, you have a real chip on your shoulder which affects your reading comprehension.
Nowhere did OP say that he objected to the installation of UFB. He simply wanted to approve the location of the installation. A very reasonable stance, since it could (and did) have significant consequences for a valuable asset.
Indeed, part of his problem has to do with the downstream consequences for future tenants unable to acquire the funding. Hardly the attitude of someone not prepared to have UFB installed.
Try reading posts with your head instead of involuntary reflexes. That way, your responses might be sensible instead of knee-jerk.My blog. From personal experience.
http://statehousinginnz.wordpress.com/Comment
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Hi all
My apologies for my absence from responding. I have been keeping track of the activity on here, but never with enough time to respond. All your input has been very helpful, with the exception of MichaelNZ... I didn't expect trolls to be present on a forum such as this.
I will endeavour to post a more substantial post but as it stands at this time I am working on filing with the Tenancy Tribunal against my tenant, and with the Disputes Tribunal against Chorus New Zealand Limited. It would seem that despite a large amount of patience and a very amicable and problem solver attitude to avoid this end situation, I am left with no choice but to become a test case.
I will seek to give a run down of the path I have traveled to this point once I have done the above.
Many thanks for the support to date.Comment
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I doubt you will have much luck against Chorus at the Disputes Tribunal. Your original post stated that the tenant falsely declared on the civil consent form that they had gained your consent for the work to proceed. Unfortunately it is not the fault of Chorus if the tenant made a false declaration and I assume that due to the sheer number of applications being made every week, Chorus do not have the resources to contact landlords to confirm the consent is genuine.Originally posted by recemember View Post
As for the actual method and route of the installation, again the tenant signed the consent form acknowledging that the route/method of installation indicated on the scope was acceptable and approved by the landlord, so I don't think the tribunal will be able to assist. Chorus' defence will likely be that they acted in good faith based on the information supplied to them. For all you know the tenant could have stated they were the owner of the property. Again, Chorus most likely do not have the resources to check this.
I am interested in this situation though, and keen to help out if I can. As stated in my previous post on this topic, my job at Spark NZ specifically involves resolving issues with fibre provisioning and installation, and I deal with Chorus fibre provisioning teams every day. Depending on the situation I may not be able to get all the information (ie if the tenant is not a Spark customer) but I should be able to get some general advice for you, and put you in touch with the right people "in the know" at Chorus.. Bear in mind that Chorus is not a big bad giant - they are not in the business of p*ssing people off on purpose - they want homeowners to be happy so that the services they provide get used (and they make money.....) -
You are welcome to send me a personal message on here, or even better, email to the address below with some details and I will happily speak to some of my contacts at Chorus to see if I can get any answers.
The type of information I will require is as follows:
Your name and best contact number + email address
Address of the subject property
Is the tenant's fibre service still connected? If so, through which retail provider (Spark, Vodafone etc)
When the installation was completed
The exact nature of the issue ie what specific aspects of the installation are you not happy with? A couple of photos would be helpful.
In my experience Chorus will usually come to the party where there is a problem with the installation, however the request for it to be investigated must usually come from the retail service provider (your tenant's internet service provider) as Chorus generally don't/won't deal direct with the owner once installation is complete. Any loss Chorus incurs in putting the situation right will most likely be sought from the tenant as the person who clearly made the false declaration. There is a clause in the civil consent document which explicitly expresses this.
Many thanks,
Simon Woodley
Fibre Operations Specialist
Spark Digital NZ Ltd
[email protected]Comment
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