is this notice

[cantthinkofanickname]

I received a text from my tenant.

i would like 2give 3weeks notice from 2day plse

My question is under the RTA section 51, does this message constitute the correct way to give notice to end a tenancy and should i as a landlord accept it as such .Your opinion please.

[Glenn]

I received a text from my tenant.

i would like 2give 3weeks notice from 2day plse

My question is under the RTA section 51, does this message constitute the correct way to give notice to end a tenancy and should i as a landlord accept it as such .Your opinion please.

Ha Ha get a life.
This is how most tenants communicate these days. In fact I think many of them do it better by text than any other form of communication.

I have been in front of a District Court judge of a contempt proceeding and offered a text message from a tenant as evidence and a plea re paying. He said he was not permitted to accept text messages as written evidence.

I have been in front of a tenancy adjudicator and she described a text message as written evidence. In both cases I forwarded the text message onto my email.

I am now forwarding a number of significant text messages onto my email for future use as tribunal evidence.

Generally I have found that it does me no good not to be pragmatic and just get on with it when tenants communicate by what ever communication about notice. The RTA does say notices need to be in writing. What it does not say is who is to put pen to paper.

So when a tenant rings or texts about a notice I put it into writing immediately for them. This details when and how they gave notice and the terms of the access for showing prospective tenants through the property.
This also details if the notice is not of sufficient period like 21 days and the extra rent they will need to pay to the end of the tenancy.

Generally the tribunal has received very well these confirmation of notice forms.

I do get a number of written notices by mail and enevitably the tenants do not allow the extra four days for serving if sent by mail. This loss of days due to the postal system can be argued but often the tenants have been good and one can see they are trying to do the correct thing.

However I also do get a number of notices with false dates on them. I always keep the date stamped envelope just in case I need to go to the tribunal. Most of the rat bag tenants who do this sort of thing are bad house keepers and so there are usually other claims against the bond in any case.

[MJU]

Absolutely agree with Glen.

However you get told leap into action with written confirmation and the whole end of tenancy / get new tenants process.

Often you have the better access to things like pen and paper, and you are the only one keeping good records...

[SuperDad]

I would say that 90% of communications from my tenants (including prospective tenants) comes by way of text message.

This is likely reflective of the demographic my accomodation suits - students and young workers.

[xris]

I have been waiting for this topic to arise here.

My opinion...

Strictly speaking text is not written. Therefore the tenant has not complied. So, in Glenn's example in the (higher) district court it was not allowed. But in the (lower) TT it may well be allowed, especially from tenant to landlord, because the TT has so much discretion.

I agree with the above comments that a LL should be pragmatic and accept text as written and save it somewhere. However be less certain about giving text notices to tenants. I gave a maintenance notice by text last week, judging this to be appropriate in light of the tenant and the work needed. I am running a risk though.

xris

[cube]

I received a text from my tenant.

i would like 2give 3weeks notice from 2day plse

My question is under the RTA section 51, does this message constitute the correct way to give notice to end a tenancy and should i as a landlord accept it as such .Your opinion please.

Hey, at least they gave you 3 weeks - didn't say "Wnt 2 mv out 2day"!

[GJB68]

I have been waiting for this topic to arise here.

My opinion...

Strictly speaking text is not written. Therefore the tenant has not complied. So, in Glenn's example in the (higher) district court it was not allowed. But in the (lower) TT it may well be allowed, especially from tenant to landlord, because the TT has so much discretion.

I agree with the above comments that a LL should be pragmatic and accept text as written and save it somewhere. However be less certain about giving text notices to tenants. I gave a maintenance notice by text last week, judging this to be appropriate in light of the tenant and the work needed. I am running a risk though.

xris

We all assume and think that txt's (and email) make it to the recipient, but unfortunately sometimes they don't.. I have had numerous communication cock ups when they haven't arrived or turn up a few days later or in one case 1 week later! (non property related txts, but meeting friends etc)

Imagine a tenant giving notice via txt and the LL never getting it, or in the case of Xris giving mainenance notice and the tenant being miffed that someone turns up and they didnt' know about it because the txt never arrived.

I always like following up letters/emails (haven't done txts yet) with a quick curtosy phone call, however even with snail mail the tenant can be selective as to if the letter arrived or not... I have had tradesmen turned away and the tenant claiming they never saw a letter or got the phone message etc etc..

[xris]

We all assume and think that txt's (and email) make it to the recipient, but unfortunately sometimes they don't.. I have had numerous communication cock ups when they haven't arrived or turn up a few days later or in one case 1 week later! (non property related txts, but meeting friends etc)

Imagine a tenant giving notice via txt and the LL never getting it, or in the case of Xris giving mainenance notice and the tenant being miffed that someone turns up and they didnt' know about it because the txt never arrived.

I always like following up letters/emails (haven't done txts yet) with a quick curtosy phone call, however even with snail mail the tenant can be selective as to if the letter arrived or not... I have had tradesmen turned away and the tenant claiming they never saw a letter or got the phone message etc etc..

Yes, this is all true and provides one good reason why email and text are regardied differently as a modes of communication.

On a practical level I can see the adjudicator saying: " Mr LL, did you receive this text?" Yes, "Notice then given." No (when he did ) "I conclude you are lying and you are blackmarked for life".

However, if No, "I conclude you are telling the truth, therefore no notice given", a different story unfolds.

By giving a follow up phone call of letter then the LL is confirming receipt, and wasting his own time doing the tenants' work for them. Better perhaps is to confirm in writing at the tenancy start that text will NOT be acceptable as a mode of communication although this is open to huge leeway in the hands of the TT and also disadvantages the LL as well.

xris

[cantthinkofanickname]

I did send away a confirmation notice kindly supplied by Glenn a while back the text arrived 10.45 pm sat nite so i sent it the following day. The question was more to do with is it legal. If i had the phone off have i received notice when it was sent or when i see it bearing in mind letters are deemed received four days after postage.i personalty have sent messages to people then driven two hours, drunk 3 beers before the message arrived to say i was coming for a beer. When is notice notice?when it is sent or received.

[xris]

Quick follow up,

The ET Act 2002 has a bearing on all this and opens a can of worms.

xris

[cantthinkofanickname]

As a follow up question do landlords have to sign off tenancies at the time the tenant moves out? ie Saturday and Sundays or is it ok to do it on the first business day.Normally i do it on the day they move as i'm very obliging. As i will be at the other end of the country that week end can i do it the following business day. How do other professional property managers do it . I do hope your are not going to say i work 24/7.

[cube]

As i will be at the other end of the country that week end can i do it the following business day. How do other professional property managers do it?

By not being at the other end of the country without professional cover for weekend calls!

A dig, I know, but a reason for having a professional property manager rather than an amateur one!

To answer the question, the tenancy ends 21 days from when the notice is given (with allowances for message delivery) - if you leave it until later to do a final inspection, the tenant could claim 'well it was tidy on Saturday when we moved out'.

cube

[Keys]

The question was more to do with is it legal. If i had the phone off have i received notice when it was sent or when i see it bearing in mind letters are deemed received four days after postage.i personalty have sent messages to people then driven two hours, drunk 3 beers before the message arrived to say i was coming for a beer. When is notice notice?when it is sent or received.

When is a notice sent by a tenant legal?

Answer:

Under any possible and conceiveable condition, transmission, notification time, delivery method ....... yadda yadda yadda.

When the LL accepts the notification, it becomes legal. (section 11{2})


Keys

[xris]

When is a notice sent by a tenant legal?

Answer:

Under any possible and conceiveable condition, transmission, notification time, delivery method ....... yadda yadda yadda.

When the LL accepts the notification, it becomes legal. (section 11{2})


Keys

This is true, but.

If notice is accepted it is accepted no matter how that notice is served. Of course.

But, the RTA (s 136) defines the ways in which notice can be served and text ain't one of them.

We therefore have a conundrum. If the landlord rings the tenant and says: "About that text last night giving notice, I don't accept it, put it in writing.", then the LL has accepted it by reading it and understanding it and acknowledging its receipt.

There is another matter here too. Under the ETI Act, text can be taken as 'written' if the recipient agrees to this in much the same way as can fax in s136 RTA.

A better example might perhaps be when a tenant phones to give notice and the LL says he will not start the 21 day countdown until he recieves it in writing. Well, he has received it verbally as evidenced by his request to have it in writing. So I firmally believe that the TT would take the day one to start when the phone call was made and the LL is asking for trouble if he sits on his bottom waiting for a letter.

xris

[cantthinkofanickname]

The Answer Is

Thanks for your thoughts DBH said if text is used and you dont acknowledge the text it would be deemed to not have been notice,. Silly me in my joy of having this troublesome tenant move my fingers worked faster than my brain.As always open to different interpretation.