Meth or P related - it goes here, please.

[speights boy]

Whether its a mutual or not i dont see the relevance because they still had salaried CEO's & staff running it .

It is very relevant because there was no one to call on to recapitalise the business.

IAG on the other hand, with a current market cap of AUD 12b, can have a rights issue to inject more equity, which in turn allows them to borrow to meet it's policy obligations.

[Wayne]

Well i guess none of us have a crystal ball, but insurance companies are unable to withstand very large scale events , and that has been proven many times over across the world.

You have examples?
Frankly I think you confuse facts with conjecture and opinions. You might do better to twist some statistics - at least they look real.

[mrsaneperson]

Well you dont have to look hard, heres another one of our own :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10717222

Frankly i dont know why youre so defensive about defending the indefensible insurance industry. A conflict of interest or in need of a "peace of mind" pacifier to sleep well? .
The bottom line is that insurance companies do go under and large scale disaster events are often the precursor.The Christchurch disaster was tiny compared to other events happening around the world.So the fact remains this one was tiny yet a govt bailout was still needed, so for a large scale one the probability of financial fallure will be so much greater.But rest assured immediately after the event policy holders will be clinging to their issued prospectus that tells them they are covered. Similar no doubt to the glossy one AMI issued pre quake.And probably bearing similar 100% assurance hallmarks like the glossy ones from Hanover Finance that reminded us with nightly TV ads reassurance with the voiceover of Richard Long .Haha! You see its all just a veneer.

But if you feel so dogmatic in your beliefs & want to honour them by paying hugely hiked up premiums thats your prerogative, just dont ask me to sign up with that dogged mentality.It pays to act financially secular in these strange times.

[Wayne]

Well you dont have to look hard, heres another one of our own :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10717222

Frankly i dont know why youre so defensive about defending the indefensible insurance industry. Perhaps you have a conflict of interest .
The bottom line is that insurance companies do go under and large scale disaster events are often the precursor.The Christchurch disaster was tiny compared to other events happening around the world. But if you feel so dogmatic in your beliefs about them & paying hugely hiked up premiums thats your prerogative, just dont ask me to sign up with that dogged mentality.

If you're talking to me then I have no vested interest in Insurance companies. What I don't like is conjecture dressed up as facts.

I am not at all surprised that a small Queenstown insurance company went bust like this which is why, as in all things, you need to have some idea about where you are putting your money.

The Chch disaster is small in comparision to many other events so I would expect, based on this statement (fact) from you
insurance companies are unable to withstand very large scale events, and that has been proven many times over across the world.
that there must be many many other insurance companies (large ones not one with 7000 policies) that have failed recently?

The last I can remember was HIH in Aus in 2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIH_Insurance

but it seems that it was the result of fraud rather than being caught out in a disaster by mis-calculated risk.

Personally I am all for informed personal choise and responsibility. If you choose not to insure then all power to you. So long as, if disaster does happen, you keep out of the handout line.
It really pisses me off that there are people, who aren't insured, bleating during a flood etc how hard done by they are - personal choice and responsibility for their own actions.

[mrsaneperson]

Insurance is not compulsory.

Insurance is not a cure all.

Insurance claims are never simple & easy in any major event.

Just because someone didn't have insurance doesnt mean they dont have a right to bleat about their devastating situation in any disaster.

Why on earth be angry about that? There are lots of angry people at the moment who were insured, whose lives are in what now seems a never ending battle with the insurance companies & councils to get their situation sorted out. And its going to take many many years. Some of those people would no doubt be better off not having insurance because all the anxiety & stress caused to them is probably going to take years off their lives.
No industry is immune to failure – no matter what the prevailing institutional characteristics – and over the past few decades, there have been several examples of significant insurance company failure. Relying on the govt to bail out the next insurance company failure is another accident waiting to happen. Dont know if they will have the mandate to offer another rescue package though.NZ is seriously in debt already.

Getting this thread back on track here are some handy almost "do it yourself" information guide on how to tackle the clean up meth situation:

http://www.kci.org/meth_info/meth_cleanup.htm

[Maccachic]

Try this one mrsaneperson: http://www.health.govt.nz/publication/guidelines-remediation
-clandestine-methamphetamine-laboratory-sites

[mrsaneperson]

Try this one mrsaneperson: http://www.health.govt.nz/publication/guidelines-remediation
-clandestine-methamphetamine-laboratory-sites

Thanks for the link ,i did have a read regarding the chemicals left behind. They list Iodine & possibly Lead but many of the other chemicals are also present in everyday household cleaners .
I read from another site that steam cleaning the carpets , and walls repeatedly to the point where no further residues are picked up is also a solution.
Its definitely a cash cow industry & the cleanup businesses rely on a general ignorance of chemical contaminants & how to get rid of them.

[Glizzle]

many of the other chemicals are also present in everyday household cleaners .

Thats because that's whats used to cook the stuff. I don't think alot of people realize what you use to make it is pretty much sitting around alot of homes.

[eri]

you've got to be very careful with this kind of forensic testing

- the brits jailed 5? irishmen for having playing card residue on their fingers, mistaking it for nitroglycerine

- chamberlain was jailed for killing her baby because some holden glue looked like blood under uv light

currently airport security are wiping some people with bits of paper to see if they have been working with oxygen based explosives

recent household bleach use would almost certainly show a false positive

it's not that the science is bad

but that the highly trained and paid people who understand and invent the tests

are not the ones who eventually perform the tests and use the results to convict people...

[Glizzle]

I love the airport ones where they swab people or there wallets and it comes up positive for Meth, Ive never seen them once ask if they are on ADD meds or had kids where you could come in contact with the drug. People forget what are in some common drugs, ADD meds are pretty much just speed, BUT hey since he isn't swinging a golf club around at the neighbor kids and making friends it must be ok !

[mrsaneperson]

you've got to be very careful with this kind of forensic testing

- the brits jailed 5? irishmen for having playing card residue on their fingers, mistaking it for nitroglycerine

- chamberlain was jailed for killing her baby because some holden glue looked like blood under uv light

currently airport security are wiping some people with bits of paper to see if they have been working with oxygen based explosives

recent household bleach use would almost certainly show a false positive

it's not that the science is bad

but that the highly trained and paid people who understand and invent the tests

are not the ones who eventually perform the tests and use the results to convict people...

Some jailed fellow made a bomb out of a pack of playing cards by cutting out all the red diamonds & ramming them into a metal pipe from his bed ...

I remember reading this in a "Ripleys Believe it or Not" book a long time back..Fascinating!

[L Plates]

Meth alarm??

NZ Weekend Herald had chap from Insurance Council mentioning "meth alarm" in front page article on P-lab. Have googled but comes up with no references at all. Anyone know anything about these??

[Denis newman]

I rekon regular tests are better and cheaper for a host of reasons, my manager does them, he does it with the tenants present, he gloves up goes through the tests and discusses with the tenants, they stare at him in terror at first then they get it. After his presentation he rekons the tenants are happy as their house is safe and deters the would be if they could bes from even moving in in the first place, result is win win win.

[grip]

Google meth minder.

[trspy90]

Google Owners Eye

This device was designed as an electronic audit of occupation for managed short term investment properties. E.g motel units However it contains an organic gas sensor which detects drug manufacture. It is only AU$30 per month on a 2 year contract with AU$100 security deposit. It will work in NZ.