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Warrant of Fitness for rentals (including details)

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  • Leftette: I like my showers hot too. But I don't like them hotter than 60 degrees, and nor does anyone else. If we did, we'd have scars instead of skin on our backs.

    I've seen some tenants turn their hot water temperature up when the size of the tank is inadequate for the number of tenants (or the length of their showers...). The WoF is never going to prevent those individual instances. The intention is that the water temperature is set in the ideal range every five years, because the chances of it staying in the ideal range increase if it's put there from time to time. If your tenant mentioned above is the outgoing tenant, he's not going to complain about the water temperature being lower for the last few days of his tenancy. If your tenant mentioned above is the incoming tenant, then as soon as the house has got its WoF you/he can turn the temperature up again.

    You haven't queried the lower limit on the hot water, but for anyone who's wondering: The hot water temperature needs to be able to reach 50 degrees to limit the likelihood of legionnaires disease. So you do need to have a minimum temperature. Actually the ideal minimum temperature for preventing legionnaires is 60 degrees, but the risk for scalding increases hugely with every degree above 50, so the 55 is a trade-off.

    2. In every conversation that I've heard about it, houses which owing to their design are not, and cannot feasibility be insulated to WoF levels will be exempt from that item on the WoF. While the ideal of course would be for all rental houses to be required to the desired thickness, there is a pragmatic recognition that requiring insulation where it's not physically feasible would take too many properties out of the rental market. (And I gather that's one of the first questions Nick Smith asked too).

    3. A small kambrook fan heater fixed to the wall is unlikely to suffice in the draft WoF I've seen, because the draft instructions include some words to the effect that the output of the heater must be adequate for the space it's heating.

    4. As with the insulation exemption for e.g. skillion-roof houses, concrete pad houses don't have to prove they've got a ground vapour barrier (because how can they?)

    I should just add the caveat that these observations were based on the first draft of the WoF, before the trial occurred. However, I've heard nothing to suggest that the WoF requirements would be made tighter in any way following the trial.

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    • WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

      Squadly dinky do!

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      • If I want my hot tap to push out >50 then it shall be so. It doesn't do anyone any harm if that is my choice and I take responsibility for that decision.
        I thought you were asking about your rental property ?

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        • Originally posted by speights boy View Post
          I don't know the answer, so a genuine question.

          Is 60 degrees too hot for a shower, ie is cold needed ?
          Yes. A healthy adult will suffer a scald after 5 seconds under water of 60 degrees (further information at the American Burn Association). Children, or older adults (whose skin is thinner) will scald more quickly.

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          • Thanks. If #2 & #4 is indeed the case I shall be happier about the changes. That said, your reasons for #2 being challenged (it will take too many out of the market) is a concern. What about the fact the bottom would fall out of the values? What about destroying the investment people have put into these places over the years?

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            • sb - I used "I" in the sense that if I was a tenant that is how I would feel. Especially when I know that if I owned the place I could do as I please. It would place Govt inside my house simply because I am a tenant and not an owner.

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              • I wonder what percentage of privately owned houses would fail the WOF test?

                I also wonder how many houses our esteemed MPs rent in Wellington,
                while on duty would also fail the WOF test?
                "There's one way to find out if a man is honest-ask him. If he says 'yes,' you know he is a crook." Groucho Marx

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                • I suspect that in time skillion roof/otherwise difficult to insulate properties are going to see the value of their property erode anyway, as people come to value insulation and warm homes without astronomical power bills.

                  I don't think the bottom would completely fall out of the values though. It is possible to insulate skillion-roof properties. I've insulated two sets of these roofs on our own home - one by taking the roof off and putting insulation in from the top; and the other by adding a second ceiling underneath. It costs more than the usual cost of installing insulation, though, and despite your natural suspicions about those working on the WoF, they were aware of the need to try to limit the likely costs required to meet the WoF.

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                  • Originally posted by muppet View Post
                    I wonder what percentage of privately owned houses would fail the WOF test?
                    After 5 or 10 years of a rental WOF system there would probably be sufficient amount of data to make some sort of judgement on that.

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                    • Originally posted by muppet View Post
                      I wonder what percentage of privately owned houses would fail the WOF test?
                      Lots, I'd imagine. But that comes back to the fact that if you own your home, the choice of whether to change the things necessary to reach WoF standard is within your control. If you rent it, those things (or most of those things) are not in your control, they are up to the landlord.

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                      • Originally posted by Leftette View Post
                        It would place Govt inside my house simply because I am a tenant and not an owner.
                        Turn it back to hot every 5 years.

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                        • Originally posted by Sante View Post
                          3. A small kambrook fan heater fixed to the wall is unlikely to suffice in the draft WoF I've seen, because the draft instructions include some words to the effect that the output of the heater must be adequate for the space it's heating.
                          Don't underestimate the Kambrook 2KW fan heaters - only $29 and includes thermostat and tip sensors. These are excellent for getting a room warm quickly (like when someone comes home in the evening to a cold house).

                          I rented in drafty ponsonby villas for 5 years, and when I switched our flat from oil heaters to fan heaters we all were happier as our rooms warmed up much quicker, and our power bill was slashed by hundreds of dollars in the winter.

                          I now live in a modern properly insulated townhouse, and still use my Kambrook heaters, one in the lounge, one in the bedroom keeps the whole house warm enough. And for extra fancy, because the heaters I so cheap I could afford to put a Belkin WeMO switch on each of them, so I can turn them on/off with my smart phone.

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                          • Well, if they go up to 2kW, and the room isn't some enormous open-plan living area, they may well be adequate for the space and therefore meet WoF requirements.

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                            • Originally posted by Sante View Post
                              Well, if they go up to 2kW, and the room isn't some enormous open-plan living area, they may well be adequate for the space and therefore meet WoF requirements.
                              Someone had better form a committee and do a study into that.
                              Squadly dinky do!

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                              • Originally posted by Sante View Post
                                Well, if they go up to 2kW, and the room isn't some enormous open-plan living area, they may well be adequate for the space and therefore meet WoF requirements.
                                Can you advise the best way to 'fix' these heaters. I like the idea of a sticker between the cord of the heater and the plastic around the socket that says 'This heater must always be plugged into this socket - removal at any time is a breach of Residential Tenancies Act 1986 40(2)(a). This in an unlawful act, punishable by a fine up to $3,000'.

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