Don't believe you can't buy at a discount

[muppet]

Great stuff, Dean.

Thanks for sharing your methods and systems with us.

I suppose next you will be charging $3995.99 to attend seminars you will be running.

Regards

[Dean@Massiveaction]

I already have 2 mentoring programmes running Bob but always happy to help where ever I can!

[Ivanhoe]

Dean!
Your help is highly appreciated here.
Do you talk to agents personally or on the phone? Do you fax S&P agreement through (I presume two most important pages?) What are the signs of potential deal - "motivated vendor", "back on the market", "vacant/flexible posession", long time on the market price below market or something else?
Any advice on "conditioning" of agents? (I tend to just be nice and positive, mostly agree, push my line gently. They always ask "how many you've got?" - very hard not to lie
I guess vendor's situation is the key - but some agents know too little (or do not tell).
Interesting how long it takes to talk agent into suggesting to the vendor some creative solutions, like vendors finance (I guess you will not get same discount in this case?) and lease options...
Pity mentoring in Chch did not eventuate!
Cheers and good luck!

[NZGEMS]

Hi Ivanhoe
You could always travel to Auckland for the mentoring dont let a distance thing stop you if it what you decide you need to do.

and Dean I would appreciate a copy of your on line S & p agreement if you dont mind, saves getting spares from the lawyer when i need them. [email protected] THnaks in anticipation and i will see you early July.

Robyn

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Hi Ivan,
You will find my answers to all these questions in the forum. And now that my back is recovering we will be doing mentoring in Wgtn and ChCh early nest year and running a one day seminar as well. All your questions on negotiating, dealing with agents and finding deals WILL BE ANSWERED!!.

However quick reply, I ring agents and then fax front page, clauses and solicitor page to agent. You'll find my article on "how to love a real estate agent" in the forum.

[cube]

There also a lot of valuable tips in

Chis Ashenden's Story.

[fudosan]

Hi Dean,

Made a low-ball, unconditional offer yesterday which was eventually rejected after counter offering. Hope you can shed some light on the following issues regarding the offer.

1. After the S&P agreement was signed at the salesman's office, it was faxed to the vendors up in the north. A counter offer was faxed to the salesman's home and then forwarded to me. When I counter offered and then faxed the document, it had become quite illegible. How do you handle this issue?

2. I used "This offer will be withdrawn if not accepted by the vendor before 1 pm (next day)." The salesman complained that this clause leaves no room for counter offer and wanted to change it. In the end, he had to go with my version. Is there better wording to use to put a time limit? How about just (verbally) saying it to the salesman that the offer will expire by a certain date? What's your experience?

Also, you said in your last post (deleted?) you now use solicitor approval as the exit clause. What has prompted you to change from the valuation clause you used to recommend?

[Dean@Massiveaction]

1. After the S&P agreement was signed at the salesman's office, it was faxed to the vendors up in the north. A counter offer was faxed to the salesman's home and then forwarded to me. When I counter offered and then faxed the document, it had become quite illegible. How do you handle this issue?

I always fax my amended original and rewrite it if unclear

2. I used "This offer will be withdrawn if not accepted by the vendor before 1 pm (next day)." The salesman complained that this clause leaves no room for counter offer and wanted to change it. In the end, he had to go with my version. Is there better wording to use to put a time limit? How about just (verbally) saying it to the salesman that the offer will expire by a certain date? What's your experience?

Normal sunset clause would be 48 hours. This offer is valid for 48 hours from time date of signing. All teh agent has to do is ring the vendor, so ignore their complaints.

[Ivanhoe]

Hi all and thanks for your feedback!
To tell the truth, i've read Chris's postings probably 10 times or more, Poomba's thread (about 9-10% in Auckland, $50 pre-tax and Papakura) probably 50 times and I guess most of discussions here and elswhere (ie: what was the nick of the guy Chris Ashenden took for a lunch "one time too many"? - TheGrocer)
It's a more subtle stuff I'm having difficulties with (could be that i will solve it in next couple of days)...
For example, when talking to agents, I always ask - do you happen to have any other properties that need to be sold yesterday? sometime you can get some very good clues... Or: when I low-ball (not that with any success - would not be asking here otherwise they ask what would you offer? I: do you mean my INITIAL offer or top price? they: top price! I: look, it's serious business, will need to talk to ......., see....., look at, but I just want to establish range for negotiation and see vendors reaction on other things like coditions, blah, blah, blah...
Now, guys, I feel like I walk in the darkness blindfolded and it's a VERY lonely placeand I REALLY need your help and feedback and beatin crap out of me! (Dean, I've sent you a note on a piece of paper - will be in the mailbox soon)

[Ivanhoe]

About love the agent - poor Asian girl is selling this run-down house on a very good street. Vendor wnted feedback, I wrote it for her (never saw her, talked on the phone couple of times). She actually missed the open home so vendor did guided tour - I did not have "property chart", just a recorder to analyze my errors in conversation (strted doing it this week, hate the sound of my voice and my English, but still VERY useful)
Take a look please, tell me if it looks ok... They have an offer around 230k (asking "mid 200ks") and most probably accept it after this feedbak so I with my 180k cash unconditional will miss out - no tears shed!
ok, here it comes:

[Ivanhoe]

Subject: 27 *******st, *** *******


> Hi, *****!
> It was pleasure talking to you today, you've got great attitude!
>
> Regarding this property my thoughts are:
> 1. Very good location, zone for ******* high, great street, close to
> everything.
> 2. Double garage - good, automatic door opener would improve
> 3. Separate living and dining - great! Living and master bedroom near -
bad.
> After all, it's just a 2 br unit converted to 3br via addition (I would
> check LIM or council file if I was a buyer). Roof of new addtion - material
> and condition? Have walls been insulated?
> 4. Kitchen, shower/laundry, wallpaper, carpet, balcony/deck are really
> outdated and in a very bad condition. Estimated cost: $30.000-40.000 to
> bring it up-to-date. Owen and dishwasher do not fit in - looks bad!
> 5. No heating. Heatpump in living, maybe ceiling insulation?
> 6. Extremely small section and not family-friendly (should be fully fenced
> for kids!). Some landscaping would have enhanced value and improve chances
> of getting good price.
> 7. Current value in current condition - $230k more or less. Small land
> component and cross-leased section without any prospects of converting to
> fee simple, so capital growth would not be (and could not have been) THAT
> dramatic.
> 8. Rental appraisal for 3br in this area - $270 per week. But for the
house
> in its current condition it would be significantly less and would attract
> low quality tenants. Projected maintenance costs are high (up to
$2000
> a year due to deferred maintenance) and tax advantages are not that great
> for someone living in Australia.
>
> Overall house has great potential (could be marketed as "townhouse
> replacement" if done up) but price should reflect it's current condition
so
> it will appeal to families on a budget or DIY enthusiast.
>
> Please keep me updated, interesting to hear what vendor's feedback would
be
> and what price it will eventually fetch. I'm ready to make cash offer
> conditional on building inspection (want to check for structural damage)
yet
> will need another day or two to come up with my top price.
>
> Warm regards,
> Ivanhoe



So whatdoyouthink, guys?

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Assuming you want to know what I really think Ivan....
I think your approach is potentially going to waste you a lot of time. You don't want to tell the agent what's good about the property. You want to buy it.
I would have made a written offer prior to visiting the property and got it under contract. Then visit the property as part of my due diligence. Then either go unconditional or go back to the agent with a valid list of reasons why you need a better price, if you do, and see how the vendor responds. Never ever ever waste you rtime viewing a property or visiting agents about property you don't have a written agreement on.
In my humble opinion

[Ivanhoe]

Cool, thanks Dean!
I'm doing open homes as a learning exersise, just need more time to build confidence and proper mindset. I'm definitely going to switch to the system you are suggesting, maybe even today, but will still do open homes to learn to negotiate, build rapport with agents, learn the feel of the streets (good/bad), improve the quality of my social interactions etc...
thank you for your help!

[Ivanhoe]

Huh, what about this other stuf - I mean phone techniques - like sweet-talk and conditioning of the agent? I can perfectly undestand their reluctance and resistance to low offers and scepticism about it, like: OK, so u r cash buyer, you offer flexible terms etc? Show me money, boy, sking price or above! (like this chinese girl, after all of this conditioning asking: so will you offer 250 or 260?)
Is it a stupid this to say on the phone: "i'llbe honest, I want buy well, but I can offer felxibility"?
Do you hammer it throgh even if they say like: "well, they are not under any pressure, tenant has just left, but they can rent it out any moment if they want..."
or: "it's an estate, so we think the price is resonable" (asking 174k, 130k will be my top price, rent $240)
look, people, if you read this, drop me a line - "it's a piece of crap!" or "cool, m8, keep going!" or anything - any feedback will help
cheers

[alsace]

I was talking to a manager of a real estate company yesterday and he felt that the only way to get a property where you would end up cash flow positive in the present market is by doornocking and buying from the owner directly. What do others think?