Kitchenette for elderly parents in our own home

[Ahar]

All electricians should be well versed in working out the load requirements.
Generally house main wiring (to the street) are OK up to 63A.
Each circuits has sufficient protection for that bit of wire - 1mm TPS will be fused (or circuit breaker) at 10A (lighting circuits), 2.5mm for 20A.
This protects the cable from overheating.
Then the main lead to the house is fused at the street - this protects the main cable.
You don't want that one to blow - have to get the power company out to fix - that will take time and probably cost.

Ovens generally use more than a hob.
Total load potential for a house generally exceeds what is available - ie if you turned everything on you would have trouble.

Wayne....sounds like you are very well versed in all things electrical. Are you an electrician?

As for your last comment re having problems if you turned everything on..... I assume this is why my neighbour, who is also my electrician, was being very cautious when he advised that the cabling from the street would have to be upgraded if I wanted to install another oven.

And I can understand why....

No reputable electrician wants to be in the situation of explaining why the main cabling from the street fused.

[Wayne]

No I am not an electrician but I have done a lot of electrical work.
When you have your own house you can control what people use and when but when you share with your parents it becomes difficult to tell them not to use the oven when you use yours.

It's a bit like a socket circuit may be fused at 20A but have many power points capable of 10A each.
Obviously 3x 2.4kW heater on the circuit will overload it but you would soon work that out.
But if one of those power points was shared with another person then you get conflict.

[Beginner1]

Hi, we have purchased a property large enough to house my elderly parents, it has a separate wing attached to our own home (it was used as a business and has direct access from the main lounge room of the house) There is a bedroom with ensuite, two other rooms and a huge lounge room which I guess was a board room) It has plumbing already in the lounge area (consented) ready to hook up a kitchenette. I want to know if what I have heard is right? From talking to friends I have heard that we can apply for consent for a kitchenette, or the alternative is to put in a kitchen suitable to their needs without consent then when we eventually sell the property on we have to pull it all out! I also heard that we can sign a statutory declaration with council stating that we will not be 'renting out' or using it for any other purposes other than dependent parents or extended family members. Is this right? What are we allowed to install and what would constitute a kitchenette if we are not allowed a full kitchen? Remembering that the plumbing is all ready there to go for the kitchenette and has been approved, the previous owners didn't get around to completing the job as they have moved due to employment elsewhere. We live in Christchurch NZ. Thank you!

I had dealings with CCC and was told I can't have this sort of arrangement unless it is a certified granny flat. I would check with council first before installing a kitchen. The second kitchen would compromise your insurance if you don't have permission. Good luck.

[John the builder]

When you have your own house you can control what people use and when but when you share with your parents it becomes difficult to tell them not to use the oven when you use yours.

as long as you have a single household (even sharing 2 kitchens) then you can still manage the electrical loads. This is another example of why as long as the occupants belong to the same household then everything is able to be managed, If you turned on every appliance and every heater in your house you could blow the fuse but this is not normal use.

Occupants of separate households on the other hand deserve and expect to be independent of another's electrical loading?

I had dealings with CCC and was told I can't have this sort of arrangement unless it is a certified granny flat. I would check with council first before installing a kitchen. The second kitchen would compromise your insurance if you don't have permission.

and what constitutes a "certified granny flat"?, we have all had such dealings where council scaremonger for their own purposes.

Do your homework and be very clear as to what the law requires. Make sure all plumbing and gas is by registered plumber/ gasfitter. Make sure all electrical work is certified by registered electrician. keep the paperwork for your protection.

It is bull shit about insurance being "compromised", unless illegal negligent work causes a fire if this is wrong please provide the basis for the contrary opinion?

[Wayne]

unless it is a certified granny flat.

That would be a flat for a 'certified granny'?

[elguapo]

I had dealings with CCC and was told I can't have this sort of arrangement unless it is a certified granny flat. I would check with council first before installing a kitchen. The second kitchen would compromise your insurance if you don't have permission. Good luck.

None of this is correct.

[Aston]

None of this is correct.

Well as for the insurance bit... I think it is fairer to say that your insurance may be compromised.

I think there is a danger in making a blanket statement in saying that your insurance will not be compromised because that is all people will hear and they will also pass on such a message to others.

John the B made it clearer in his post where he qualified it by saying "unless illegal negligent work causes a fire..."

The safest thing to do is to keep your insurance Co. in the loop by asking them and get their response in writing.

[John the builder]

John the B made it clearer in his post where he qualified it by saying "unless illegal negligent work causes a fire..."

even if work has a consent this is no guarantee that things dont go awry but if a CCC is issued you have some grounds for looking to others for responsibility.

[elguapo]

Well as for the insurance bit... I think it is fairer to say that your insurance may be compromised.

That is not correct either. There is no requirement for 'permission' for a kitchen, therefor there is no way the lack of said permission is going to compromise your insurance.

[John the builder]

elqupo is correct if we dont get the langauage right then we give power to insurers that they have no right to.

The question to insurer should be does unconsented work (that required consent) void my insurance. I understand there were some issues in Chch around this issue, does anyone know?

[Eugene]

Agree with John and elguapo.

I have a granny flat I upgraded. I got electrical work certified, moved a wall and got a building consent, insulated the wall to 30/30/30 fire rating (though the inspector did not certify the fire rating as I did not inform the council I was intending to separate the dwellings), put on two phase power, used a plumber to move a sink.

However we did not inform the council it was now two completely separated units as we would have had to pay a development levy.

I told the insurance company exactly this and they were happy.

Recently when I moved to AA insurance they insisted on insuring two dwellings instead of one and charging an EQC levy. Fine with me. But this is quite separate to the situation with the council.

None of the work done was unconsented or dodgy.

Oh a plumber did put in a new waste for the kitchen sink. But it is above ground and could be removed or redone in the unlikely event the council ever complained.


Later we fully insulated a sound existing garden shed, The granny flat now uses that as a study.

It was expensive, but as the granny flat was already there we were able to stage it. We did the arithmetic and it paid off well - the return was great.

[John the builder]

I have a granny flat I upgraded. I got electrical work certified, moved a wall and got a building consent, insulated the wall to 30/30/30 fire rating (though the inspector did not certify the fire rating as I did not inform the council I was intending to separate the dwellings), put on two phase power, used a plumber to move a sink.

if you create two 'separate dwellings' then you may be contravening the District plan.

You need to consistently maintain that you are not doing so but have separate self-contained spaces under the same household and part of a single residential unit.

putting in fire walls is prudent but implies that you have intention for separation and exclusive use?

[Wayne]

Insuring seperately would add to the impression.

[Maccachic]

elqupo is correct if we dont get the langauage right then we give power to insurers that they have no right to.

The question to insurer should be does unconsented work (that required consent) void my insurance. I understand there were some issues in Chch around this issue, does anyone know?

This gives a break down on vehicle insurance Id imagine it equally applies to any other insurance:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8982198/Don-t-get-caught-by-insurance-fish-hooks

This may help: Under the Insurance Law Reform Act, if you can prove that the breach of conditions had nothing to do with the accident, you can still get paid. The odds aren't good, though. In a random sample of 10 cases, nine had their claims declined because the ISO believed a qualified co-driver would have prevented the accident.

[Eugene]

if you create two 'separate dwellings' then you may be contravening the District plan.

You need to consistently maintain that you are not doing so but have separate self-contained spaces under the same household and part of a single residential unit.

putting in fire walls is prudent but implies that you have intention for separation and exclusive use?

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that, I will address it.
Time to pay the development levy.