Can you get Rich and Retire Early in Real Estate?

[Glenn]

Sorry but I totally disagree with f&c man there.
Sure the entry point for property does flick around here and there.
Sure the good cities to invest in are always going to be hard to kick start in. However "good" normally equates to lower risk better future.
After 27 years on a corportate promotion ladder that made my fellow workers envious because for the most part they were better than me, it did me no good at all wealth promotion wise.
Sure I enjoyed my time in Telecom (despite lots of moans whilst there) but it was all illusionary. Sure I would have not chosen to be thrown out along with thousands of others but at least it made me see another world and appreciate it and the people who live in it.

There will always be oportunities for people to advance their asset base and get ahead. Sure it might be slow but then the best trees in the forest are the slow growing ones.

[Clark Kent]

Then you are one of three things:
1. A liar.
2. Lazy.
3. Impatient.

Take your pick. I can spot a scam post a mile away.

However, if you are none of the above then your inability to work hard and achieve something with your life lies within you. Your education (if true) will not fail you if you are prepared to spend the years required to impress your superiors and gain the required experience you will need to move up your chosen professions’ ladder.

There is more profit in an honest day’s work than spruicking!

If anyone thinks that they will become Rich by property these days, then they better think again. In the end property is a numbers game. Plain and simple. Today, the numbers do not add up. The entrant outlays versus return in rents or otherwise is currently out of balance. Maybe in a few years, as property values fall and the economy stabilizes, then perhaps this will not be so – but currently – it’s a fool’s game, nothing more.

On what facts do your basis your assumption that this is a scam post. I hope you dont mentor young people.

[Davo36]

Go and eat some more fish and chips fatty.

[ENP]

And what is a "scam post"

Does it really matter then that the market now is a tad expensive compared to a few years ago? Is it the same old, time in the market rather than timing the market? If the rental you buy makes positive cashflow then I don't see the problem of timing the market. Yes, no?

[orion]

Hi ENP,

Some good posts here in this thread. If you want to do this, you will find a way. Read as much as you can not only about real estate but mostly about your own self-development. I'm not sure if you have read my book which is 10 stories of people that have become millionaires in property all using different strategies. If you haven't, I am happy to send you a free copy if you want to PM me.
If you can get it into your own mind that you already are successful, and grateful for what you do have now, you will attract more. Goal setting is one way which Glenn suggests and works well, I used to do the same thing with goals, but make them in quite a different way now (was a long thread about this a while back).
One thing I used to do from about the age of 18 for several years was every day say to myself "I am successful and I am wealthy" over and over again while driving to work as a mechanic. I was totally broke at the time and really still had nothing until about age 29 or 30 when it finally started to happen. Now 15 years after that, I don't ever have to work again and am happier than ever before as well. Also 5 years ago, I lost over a million dollars in only one year (also in the book).

You are at a great age to be doing this and good on you for not taking your parents, friends and others' (like fatfishandchipman) advice, people that tell you it can't be done, or you have to get educated and work hard in a job all your life. Hang around and talk to successful people and listen to them. Ask them lots of questions, not just how they did it, but why they did it, their beliefs in their ability to achieve, their habits etc etc. Don't necessarily follow exactly what they have done, or even try to, you will find a way that suits your skills, risk profile and personality if you keep on track. Just listen for ideas, and think - how can I apply this to me, or my situation?

I know for sure it can be done and you can do it as well, as long as you believe it. Also good on you for taking the time to post on here and ask for other people's opinions and thoughts, in the face of possible belittling and ridicule, that takes a lot of courage in itself. Well done.

Regards
Graeme Fowler

[essence]

Graeme

Thanks for a great post. Much better than the negative posts that have been happening on this thread.

[Taupo Tiger]

I wonder if the fatfishandchipman is Bernard Hickey?

[essence]

F&C Man

Could you change your post please. The graph (if that's what you put in) is extremely hard to read.

[fatfishandchipman]

Negative?

The boy said he was 21.

At age 21 we are only barely starting our lives. At age 21 ENP is expecting the world to be handed to him on a platter. He is expecting far more than he has a right to. What has he earned? What has he learned? Where is he going? What is his plan?

This boy hasn’t even passed the starting gate yet.

ENP if you are legitimately asking these questions then my best advice for you – knowing what you expect – riches and easy street. Then I suggest you buy a lottery ticket and keep your fingers crossed.

You should also know that within a few years most of these “so-called-realestate millionaires” here on this website will lose their shirts. Not all of them, but most of them. Two years from now the New Zealand property market will be a very different animal and it may be or still may not be a good place to invest in. The honest answer to your question is that we will need to be at least two years down the road from now before we will know the lay of the land ahead.

January 2010 statistics from REINZ show only 3666 houses all across New Zealand sold. It has never been this bad before. Here are some sobering statistics from REINZ. These are all the home sales of less than 4500 per month:

· JAN 1992 4427
· APR 2008 4450
· MAY 2008 4372
· JUN 2008 4305
· JUL 2008 4489
· AUG 2008 4220
· SEP 2008 4499
· OCT 2008 4469
· NOV 2008 4279
· DEC 2008 4302
· JAN 2009 3706
· JAN 2010 3666

[fatfishandchipman]

I wonder if the fatfishandchipman is Bernard Hickey?

Bernard Hickey?

He wishes he looked so good.

[Davo36]

Interesting list of numbers FatFishAndChipMan, but I'm not sure what the number of house sales has to do with anything.

In 1992, for instance, we were just coming out of a much worse recession and property went up in value massively after that. If you could go back in time and buy at say 1993 prices and then sell them in 1996, you'd be mega rich.

I'm not saying it will be like that in the immediate future. Yes I'm sure your right in 2 years time we will know the lay of the land better than now, but isn't that always the case, at any time? 2 years ago who knew (and predicted) what we have seen in the last 2 years? Virtually no one I reckon.

I think all you can do is try and figure out what is likely to happen and go with that. and don't take on too much debt at any time in case things turn out differently.

There are many things that could happen in the next 2 years. Here's a list I have in my mind:

• China could have a property bubble bursting. This could stuff Australia's economy and with that, ours too.
• Countries like the PIGS in Europe could go bust.
• The USA could have another housing crisis. Or not. Maybe it will come right.
• Immigration to NZ could change drastically. Maybe upwards? Compared to many parts of Asia, NZ is heaven. Free money if you don't want to work? Free health care? Free education? This is all like nirvana to them.
• Australia finally has some sort of housing crisis. This could be due to increases in their reserve bank rate.
• Oil could become very much more expensive.
• The value of gold could plummet over night.

And who knows what else? There's a million and one things that could go right or could go wrong. And trying to decide which is almost impossible IMHO. You just have to do what seems sensible.

David

[ENP]

Negative?

The boy said he was 21.

At age 21 we are only barely starting our lives. At age 21 ENP is expecting the world to be handed to him on a platter. He is expecting far more than he has a right to. What has he earned? What has he learned? Where is he going? What is his plan?

This boy hasn’t even passed the starting gate yet.

ENP if you are legitimately asking these questions then my best advice for you – knowing what you expect – riches and easy street. Then I suggest you buy a lottery ticket and keep your fingers crossed.

I'm just planning for my future. I'm sure I'm more on the right track than the rest of people my age spending up large on cars and TV's and stuff. I'm just saving up and trying to educate myself more on property investments. If you want to knock me for trying to leanr and better myself, I feel very sorry for you.

And what do you mean legitimately asking these questions? Why would I ask them if I didn't want to know an answer?

[fatfishandchipman]

Davo,

Yes. You understand. But, there were actually quite a number of people on this very website (2 years ago) saying that things had changed. Just imagine if those people who are in trouble today had listened to those few “naysayers” of yesteryear …

The idea of why low home sales do matter should really be put into context. Imagine, if you will, that there are in only 4500 homes in New Zealand then you could consider the above list a very hot and competitive marketplace – you and I could make money here.

However, if there were (and is) actually 1.4 million homes in New Zealand and x number are for sale and only a very small percentage has been sold then we could consider the market cold and unproductive.

Here is another list. Note the dates. These numbers are those home sales above 8000:

·Feb 1994 8064
·Mar 1994 9266
·Nov 1995 8193
·Feb 1996 9941
·Mar 1996 9960
·Apr 1996 8284
·Nov 1996 8390
·Mar 1997 8186
·Apr 1997 8070
·Mar 1999 8114
·Feb 2002 8677
·Mar 2002 9648
·Apr 2002 9143
·May 2002 9061
·Aug 2002 8036
·Oct 2002 9433
·Nov 2002 9822
·Jan 2003 8157
·Feb 2003 9643
·Mar 2003 10745
·Apr 2003 9014
·May 2003 11336
·Jun 2003 9789
·Jul 2003 10150
·Aug 2003 10222
·Sep 2003 10686
·Oct 2003 10923
·Nov 2003 10774
·Dec 2003 8669
·Jan 2004 8382
·Feb 2004 9859
·Mar 2004 11378
·Apr 2004 9609
·May 2004 9408
·Jun 2004 8425
·Aug 2004 8143
·Oct 2004 8191
·Nov 2004 9474
·Dec 2004 8546
·Feb 2005 10145
·Mar 2005 10406
·Apr 2005 8875
·May 2005 9249
·Jun 2005 8025
·Jul 2005 8135
·Aug 2005 8591
·Sep 2005 9186
·Oct 2005 8513
·Nov 2005 9357
·Mar 2006 10039
·May 2006 9642
·Jun 2006 8428
·Aug 2006 8556
·Sep 2006 8658
·Oct 2006 8857
·Nov 2006 9990
·Dec 2006 8245
·Feb 2007 9357
·Mar 2007 10989
·Apr 2007 8194
·May 2007 9285

It’s very different and much longer. Now compare this list to the previous and you get my drift. The NZ housing market is now entering uncharted waters, of this, there can be no doubt.

[essence]

F&C Man

Can you somehow manage to post a graph of these figures??

I'm more of a visual person and a graph would help enormously.

[kingkong82]

The only way that you can achieve this, is by planning. "We do not plan to fail but we fail to plan"