Dean Letfus: “my job is to cover sin” -- WHO & WHAT?

[outspoken]

where is poomba in all of this....isn't what you guys are doing all speculation and witch hunting if the man isn't even around to defend himself?

[Mark_B]

where is poomba in all of this....isn't what you guys are doing all speculation and witch hunting if the man isn't even around to defend himself?

If he's comfortable with his conscience (as I have been suggesting), then why would he defend himself?

[outspoken]

If he's comfortable with his conscience (as I have been suggesting), then why would he defend himself?

Sorry for assuming you knew what I meant.

I meant set the record straight, give his side of the story...

[PeterEmpowerEd]

You're out driving in your car. At 49 kph you're a law-abiding citizen. At 51 kph you're breaking the law. Can you sleep with yourself at night?

Thanks for your contribution Mark.
With your permission, can we move the discussion away from your '49 kph vs 51 kph' example to weightier things.
For example:

WHERE WAS GOD?

The question—“Where was God?”—is nowhere more poignant than in response to the Shoah, or Holocaust. Speaking at a recent, short ceremony at the memorial to the victims, Pope Benedict XVI asked this question again. “In a place like this”, he said, “words fail; in the end, there can only be a dread silence—a silence which is itself a heartfelt cry to God: Why, Lord, did you remain silent? How could you tolerate all this?”
...
Whether God was silent or not is, and still remains,the real question. My answer is that God was silent because those within whom God dwells were silent! Very few voices of protest were raised by the international as well as the German hierarchy to decry the depraved butchery of a whole people. Even less was said about the Gypsies, homosexuals, the infirm and the mentally-ill that were gassed in the ovens of the camps.

God was silent because the people of God were silent—and God can only speak through his own and those filled with the prophetic voice of the Spirit to confront such intolerable injustice.

http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/ejournal/aejt_7/editorial.htm

We know that God calls Christians to an ethic of love. He also forbids us to stay silent in the face of evil.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/...ary/32.68.html

Compared with this:

I knew things that were not right and people were potentially being taken advantage of. I have over and over again had to stop myself from saying anything publicly and it has been incredibly hard for me. Every time I said to God that I wanted to see this thing put right HE would say to me “Dean it is your job to cover sin, justice is my problem”.

http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17353

[Mark_B]

Thanks for your contribution Mark.
With your permission, can we move the discussion away from your '49 kph vs 51 kph' example to weightier things.

As the saying goes Peter, if you didn't want the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Er, sorry Mark, I wasn't intentionally being insulting.
Your fine line example made a useful point ... that there are fine lines, and it's up to our conscience.
I just had something else I wanted to say. - P

[Mark_B]

Er, sorry Mark, I wasn't intentionally being insulting.

Apology accepted, without question.

(What a bizarre evening this has been)

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Goodness I go to Oz for 3 days and I have my own thread again.
Anyway my only comment is this.
Peter said:

I’d ask him but his blog says God repeatedly told him not to speak up.

As Peter lives 5 minutes from me, has my cell number, landline and email and has contacted me using these mediums on many, many occasions, I am certain he was not looking for an answer to his question or he would have picked up the phone and asked me, and I probably would tell him.

So why he started this public thread is probably more interesting than the questions he poses.

I find it bizarre in the extreme that he would not simply ring me.

[Baron Silas Greenback]

I dont mind people talking to god, but when they tell me that he talks back... I back away veeery slowly.... and then run.

[typhoon]

Goodness I go to Oz for 3 days and I have my own thread again.
Anyway my only comment is this.
Peter said:


As Peter lives 5 minutes from me, has my cell number, landline and email and has contacted me using these mediums on many, many occasions, I am certain he was not looking for an answer to his question or he would have picked up the phone and asked me, and I probably would tell him.

So why he started this public thread is probably more interesting than the questions he poses.

I find it bizarre in the extreme that he would not simply ring me.

so maybe PJ is thinking correctly about the self promo angle in petes case?

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Hi Dean

Goodness I go to Oz for 3 days and I have my own thread again.

Welcome back, mate. I guess it shouldn’t surprise us (it does, but it shouldn't) that this discussion has blown in to a ‘what’s Peter’s agenda for attacking Dean?’ scenario in some posters’ minds, but in truth you raised a serious, timely and relevant question. I used your 4th August blog as a starting point in this discussion on Sunday afternoon, then yesterday offered John Luxton’s disappointing revelation that he too, had information some people think he should have spoken out about earlier.
For me, the important ethical question is:

Is it justifiable to stay silent in the face of financial wrongdoing or should you speak up?

It’s not the first time I’ve raised the issue:

For me the key issue to emerge from this episode is that it appears the IRD was climbing all over Blue Chip for unpaid tax, issuing statutory demands and permits to enter premises etc ... yet meanwhile the slick BC marketing machine was continuing to take money in from the unsuspecting public.

(a) Were the 'independent' directors asleep at the wheel? Surely these documents were tabled? Isn't carrying on business in the face of this reckless?
(b) Was there no way for the IRD to let the Commerce Commission, the Companies Office etc know about these defaults? ... Privacy is one thing but this lack of co-ordination let a bad situation get worse.

That's crazy. What else is going on that we don't know about?

Surely this is a conversation we can have without it turning nasty and personal.

‘Bizarre in the extreme’ that I didn’t ring you?
With respect, Dean, surely you didn’t publish those comments (re: you knowing something was wrong but staying silent) on your blog as an invitation for readers to call you individually to ask what you knew but kept to yourself?
Isn’t publishing a blog all about provoking discussion and comments?

I’m genuinely asking people on this forum what they think of the issue.

Anyway, yep, I’m up for coffee and a catch up. I’ll call you this morning.
regards, Peter

PS to those of you think this is "Empower Education" attacking "Dean Letfus", a competitor in "the industry", you're wrong. These are genuinely important issues, in my view. You may disagree. I post here on PT openly, in my own name -- which opens me to a backlash, I know.

[willmott]

I fully agree with you Graham. Perhaps some people have too much time on their hands - assumptions and gossip being the outcome. RESPECT for one anothers views would be a good moto

[Glen]

Wow you guys really know how to go off on tangents

I once knew a guy, who had a dog, and this dog liked to pee on gnomes in peoples gardens, and this one garden that he did his biz on was owned by god, who believed about people going off on tangents, and then there was this other.............sorry,..what were you saying?!
(obviously no point at all to this post, but just thought i'd post some crap ) See ya!

[Glen]

Rock on Dean! Good on ya!

[PeterEmpowerEd]

Just a quick update...

I’m genuinely asking people on this forum what they think of the issue.
Anyway, yep, I’m up for coffee and a catch up. I’ll call you this morning.
regards, Peter

Just to say we never did get to have that coffee -- I tried calling and e-mailing repeatedly over the next few weeks and got hold of him a few times. But he was just too busy, either just off to the Gold Coast or just back ... and it never happened. (I'm not saying there was anything untoward about that, it's just how it happened.) - P