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Trading Property to make a Profit

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  • Trading Property to make a Profit

    Trading Property to make a Profit

    There are a lot of people looking at going full time into property trading to make a living and gain wealth.

    My first comment, is be very careful about quitting your day job.

    - This job brings you day to day cash flow, which enables you and your family to live.

    - Banks love a steady, solid income. So without one, you might find borrowing difficult.

    Secondly, do the figures really stack up? In today’s market it is easy to buy, easy to renovate, but the problem lies with selling. This can result in additional holding costs and also with a lower than expected selling price.

    Here is an example of a Property Trade that I have heard an investor talk about.

    Example
    Purchased for $275,000

    Renovations cost $5,000

    Could sell for $300,000

    From a quick glance, a lot of people think “that’s not too bad”, and it’s $20,000 profit. But unfortunately that is not the case. Below are the likely expenses and I have included commission because in today’s market, many sellers are needing to use an agent to get a good price.

    So based on the expenses included, the Trade would make a loss of $693. If Commission is excluded the profit would be $8,307 before tax, or around $6,000 after tax at average tax rates.

    This example shows how quickly a perceived profit can disappear. If the property was held for longer, then it is likely to make more of a loss.

    My example didn't post well on here, but look at http://www.cswaikato.co.nz/news/trad...make-a-profit/ to see the full profit and loss.

    Be careful of trading in South Auckland
    There are a number of property investors getting tutored about property trading, and my understanding is that there are around 90 such students targeting areas in South Auckland.

    So in my opinion this is too many traders concentrating in the one area, so I would suggest being very careful about trying to trade in this area, as it is likely there are too many other traders competing to sell their properties.

    $50,000 rule
    I always think that you need $50,000 gap between the purchase and sale, with limited renovation expenses. So for example buy at $250,000, spend $5,000 on renovations and sell for $300,000. Based on the same kind of expenses including commission, the profit before tax would be approximately $20,000.

    This level of profit gives the trader some room to move with either the selling price, or to hold the property for longer, and to still make some kind of profit.

    Ross
    Book a free chat here
    Ross Barnett - Property Accountant

  • #2
    100k Rule

    Renovations cost $5,000
    I never came across a good deal which had $5000 renovation cost, especially in Better parts of AKL and in today's market.

    It is most likely that if a property is require 5k for cosmetic only makeover to achieve increase in value of say 40k-50k it would be snapped up by home buyers and the price / deal will have no money in it / margin for the trader.

    some buy a Reno property to make $10k-15k which is in my opinion not worth the effort and risk. one can make around or less then 5k a month without the risk.

    $50,000 rule
    I always think that you need $50,000 gap between the purchase and sale, with limited renovation expenses. So for example buy at $250,000, spend $5,000 on renovations and sell for $300,000. Based on the same kind of expenses including commission, the profit before tax would be approximately $20,000.
    I would say 40k-50k Rule of minimum profit (although it doesn't come out like that all the time), so buy at 220k do up for 45k and sell for 330k or there about.
    So its a 100k Rule of what you buy and end sell added value.
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    • #3
      The best trades I have seen, and continue to see, is the ones where a trader gets in and out quick. So that is why I use the $5k example. Basics things like cleaning the house, chopping some trees down, etc etc. So overall the trader has purchased well, and with a few basic improvements can sell quickly for a reasonable profit.

      What I have noticed with traders who spend reasonable money (like $45k), is that they take too long, therefore they incur more rates, insurance and interest. Also the project generally gets bigger and bigger, and the costs balloon out.

      There will always be different traders who make good money doing different things. So if you are spending more on renovation costs, then you need a lot more than that simple $50k gap.

      Ross
      Book a free chat here
      Ross Barnett - Property Accountant

      Comment


      • #4
        I think a $5,000 renovation is total rubbish. I never seen a $5,000 renovation that increase the value of a property by $50,000 in the same market.

        People aren't that stupid to pay $300,000 for a property that has been "cleaned".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Orkibi View Post
          I would say 40k-50k Rule of minimum profit (although it doesn't come out like that all the time), so buy at 220k do up for 45k and sell for 330k or there about.
          So its a 100k Rule of what you buy and end sell added value.
          Yip I agree. Unless the property has been substantially improved then you may find your stuck with a property you can only sell for the same money you paid for it. Its a false economy spending $5 and thinking you will make $1000's

          I actually think you have to actually add value to add value. i.e you have to actually improve the property, not just clean and paint over the wallpaper. Purchasers and especially the valuer will see right past that and you end up having to sell at reduced price to move it. Most of the renovations I see selling quickly and for good profit are properties that have had some money spent on them, not excessive money, but new kitchens, bathrooms and carpet to really provide a nice product to market.

          The market is driven by home buyers not investors so it pays to renovate them to that standard. IMHO

          Last edited by shanecarruthers; 22-03-2012, 03:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Missing are valuation costs and mortgage discharge costs, assuming that a mortgage is raised.

            As you have indicated, all should note that any profit you do make in this trading is subject to income tax.
            Last edited by flyernzl; 22-03-2012, 09:34 PM.

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            • #7
              all should note that any profit you do make in this trading is subject to income tax.
              Depend of your structure and entity but around 40%-50% of you gross profit after fees and cost goes on TAX.
              New Zealand's #1 Marketplace for Property Investors & Sellers!
              FREE Access to HOT Property Deals
              CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO.

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              • #8
                There was a local TV series a few years ago - 'The Renovators' I think.
                About people doing residential do-ups for resale and hopefully profit.
                I was stunned at the low margins they were getting for the time, effort and risk involved.
                Not for this chicken thanks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Some traders key strength is buying well. They can actually buy well under market value. So that is how they can make a profit without doing much. But note one of my first comments, "the problem lies with selling".

                  Rather than how you trade, or how you make your profit, whether it is through adding value or buying right, or a combination of the two, traders need to be very careful that they are actually making profit and that the profit was worth the risk.

                  Ross
                  Book a free chat here
                  Ross Barnett - Property Accountant

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                  • #10
                    I did a quick profit calculation based on Oriki's figures above.
                    So buy $220k and sell for $320k with $45k renovations. I have increased holding costs, as the project will take longer.

                    With commisson to a real estate agent, the profit before tax is around $23,000. After tax at say 25% average, this would leave a $17,250 profit after tax.

                    If sold for $330k then the profit would be a little more. So spending more and having a $100k gap works from a financial point of view, and the trader would come out with a reasonable profit for their risk. But if the renovations cost an extra 10%, and the work takes longer, then the profit quickly disappears.

                    What I'm really trying to get across is that trading is hard work, and not an easy way to make a quick $. You need to be a very good trader, with some great skills to make it really work.

                    Ross
                    Book a free chat here
                    Ross Barnett - Property Accountant

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What I'm really trying to get across is that trading is hard work, and not an easy way to make a quick $. You need to be a very good trader, with some great skills to make it really work.
                      This is True, and Been "a good trader" is not that clear. - It is all about buying well at the out set when the Deal is no brainier.

                      As the old saying "you make your money when you buy" and when you add value you make more money.
                      New Zealand's #1 Marketplace for Property Investors & Sellers!
                      FREE Access to HOT Property Deals
                      CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO.

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                      • #12
                        It depends on whether you are an observer or actually doing something.

                        The reality is that unless you have actually added value and improved the property substantially you run the risk of putting it back on the market and people seeing that you have done nothing more then paint over the wallpaper and clean. Its false to think you can do very little to save money because that is more risky. You may have gotten away with that in 2000-2005 but the market has changed and people are more savy.

                        I prefer to have a buyer for the property before I start.

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                        • #13
                          In the present market:-

                          Buy well, renovate, and hold onto it. But I actually enjoy my day job

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                          • #14
                            What about the Grey Lynn mentioned in the Herald recently that was bought for $827k in 2010 ans just sold for $1.83M after extensive renovations.
                            Profiting from Property, not People

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                            • #15
                              Examples of trades I've done:

                              Takapuna - bought $318,000 sold $382,750, reno cost was $26k

                              Glen Eden - bought $231,500 sold $291,500, reno cost $30k (had pipe leak in new kitchen so had to take out, rip up new lino, replace particle board flooring and redo lino etc - insurance wouldn't cover it)

                              After income tax, GST, holding costs, etc trust me there was very little profit left.

                              So for example buy at $250,000, spend $5,000 on renovations and sell for $300,000.
                              Ross I would love to know how to do this when just sanding/polishing a T&G floor can cost over $1500.

                              Throw your heart over the bar and your body will follow - Norman Vincent Peale

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