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  • muppet
    Banned
    • Sep 2003
    • 10593

    #1

    Property prophets have their say

    Hi Guys

    More from the NZ Herald:

    Property prophets have their say

    18.06.05
    By Anne Gibson

    Back in 2003, housing soothsayers were predicting a slowdown.

    Instead, house prices on average rose about 47 per cent between 2002 and 2004 and are still going up, as the latest Quotable Value statistics this week showed.

    Real Estate Institute president Howard Morley regularly crows about just how wrong some banking economists got it when they forecast doom two years back. In his desk drawer, he keeps a newspaper article predicting the end of the boom.

    The economists were citing lower migration inflows, rising mortgage interest rates and a shortage of construction workers as reasons for a decline. But since then, interest rates have risen considerably, migration has slowed and building has been running at record levels, yet house prices are still rocketing ahead.

    Late last year, Britain's The Economist magazine used Quotable Value figures to put New Zealand in third place internationally for the fastest-rising house prices, just behind Hong Kong and South Africa.

    Prices took off in the 1980s, fuelled by the overhaul of the economy, the freeing up of credit and rising inflation. Lately rises have been sustained by banks' aggressive lending policies.

    Not all economists were calling an end to the boom back in 2003.

    BNZ chief economist Tony Alexander said then that the real heat was yet to come in housing. The market was rock-solid and prices would rise.

    Also right were the predictions of Infometrics PMI Mortgage Insurance survey, which said in November 2003 that prices would rise 19 per cent within the coming three years.

    "The economists were all right - their timing was just a bit out," said John McDermott, chief economist of ANZ, this week. But, he added quickly, his institution was not proved wrong about housing. It had always been bullish about the sector, so he had no regrets about his forecasts.

    So where to for housing next?

    The general economic outlook is not so bright.

    Building consents in April were down a third on a year earlier, unemployment rose in the first quarter - the first rise in 18 months - retail sales have been soft and business confidence has fallen to its lowest level in nearly 17 years.

    And in an attempt to cool inflation - including rising house prices - the Reserve Bank raised its official cash rate seven times since early last year. A Reuters poll this month showed a median expectation that interest rates have peaked and will be cut to 6.5 per cent in the first quarter of next year.

    Migration, a key driver of demand for houses, continues to slow.

    Most of us have the bulk of our assets tied up in residential property - and about half all homeowners have a mortgage, opening them to interest rate fluctuations which have moved up rapidly lately.

    We prefer to tie up most of our wealth in housing rather than shares and savings. And with so many of us using the bank's money, we are a nation of mortgage slaves.

    So what next? Six experts say.

    KIERAN TRASS, Director of investment property experts Hybrid Group

    "House prices in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch will drop about 5 per cent in the next two years because those cities haven't had big value rises lately. But apartment values in Auckland's CBD will fall by about 30 per cent because of an oversupply and coastal property prices could halve in some areas.

    "When our economy dips, people start to question why they have so much money tied up in an asset they might use three to four weeks of a year.

    "I'm also concerned about rental houses in small towns where lots of Australians have been buying, pushing values to ridiculous levels. You should not be buying in Tokoroa. It's going to suffer when the economy takes a turn by next year."

    TONY ALEXANDER, BNZ chief economist

    "It is extremely unlikely that house prices will keep rising at 13 per cent annually as they have been in the past four years. The housing market is easing off in the form of buyers not being willing to pay silly prices - but still wanting to buy nonetheless.

    "In some parts of the country, there are listings shortages. Prices are flat at worst on average but we see minor falls from later this year as the negatives progressively outweigh the positives. If people start expecting tax cuts soon, this will be a new source of support for the market which will reduce but not prevent the cyclical easing."

    MARY HOLM, seminar presenter, author of Investing Made Simple and a Business Herald columnist

    "I've vowed not to get into the game of predicting property or share price changes. So often, even the top experts get it wrong. But sometimes people ask me to at least guess.

    "I've got a friend who is planning to sell her house and not buy another. She will rent instead. I have another friend who is looking into buying a bach in a place where prices have soared. I'm urging the first one to get her house on the market fast while prices are still holding. I'm urging the second one to wait a year or two because bach prices might fall.

    "I could well be wrong. Prices might keep rising for another year or two. If they do, though, it seems to me that only makes it more likely they will eventually fall further.

    "Prices have risen so much faster than rents and people's incomes in recent years and logic tells you that that can't continue. Demand from overseas buyers on higher incomes does boost prices. But what proportion of NZ houses are bought by foreigners? It must be tiny."

    ANTHONY BYETT, ASB Bank chief economist

    "The housing market has rebounded in the March quarter, but the pressures that will slow it continue to mount, particularly the rising interest rate burden that will result from rate changes to date and - as recognised by the ASB confidence survey - by the high risk of even more rate hikes to come. Not surprisingly, the general public continues to express some wariness towards the housing market."

    HOWARD MORLEY, Real Estate Institute president

    "I would not make predictions and never have done as an agent for 30 years. With high levels of employment, the real estate market is quite firm.

    "Interest rates aren't affecting the market and I don't see that changing in the future. Listings are short and there are still a lot of buyers in the market nationally."

    BRYAN THOMSON, Harcourts chief executive

    "My expectations in the next 12 to 24 months are that we will see a continuation of what we have at present - solid volumes of sales across most marketplaces with stable price levels.

    "Blue-chip suburbs and key locations in growth areas will continue to see price rises, although perhaps at a slightly lower rate than the past two years. Sellers will need to be realistic with price expectations.

    "Interest rates remain at historically attractive levels and unless a major and unlikely upward movement takes place, rates will have far less impact on the market than the key driver - employment."
    News source:
    Latest breaking news articles, photos, video, blogs, reviews, analysis, opinion and reader comment from New Zealand and around the World - NZ Herald


    Regards
  • 8310
    Freshie
    • Jun 2005
    • 8

    #2
    Whats everyone elses view on auckland apartments? If population predictions come true surely they will have regained some value in the next 10 years. I bought mine in 1998 and have lost 40% so far on paper, and now someone says I will lose another 30% in the next 2 years. ARGHH. you win some you lose some i guess. I am gonna stick it out until it becomes all mine. SIGH!

    Comment

    • fudosan
      Reaching out to Asia
      • Jun 2004
      • 2084

      #3
      Hi 8310, welcome to the forum

      For several months I have looked at CBD apartments for quality units with good cashflow, but have not bought any. In my calculation, I figure that prices really have to drop by more than 30% to make it a viable investment. With supply going up and demand dwindling fast, I guess the prices will have to drop.

      Comment

      • kieran
        Addicted
        • Oct 2003
        • 590

        #4
        Welcome to the forum 8310,

        Apologies for my dire opinion on the apartment market in the short term but the good news for you is that the next 10 year prognosis for our apartment market actually looks pretty healthy! It's just the next few years that look difficult for this market.

        Just to qualify my quoted comments in the Herald a little further:

        1) In respect of my comment "because those cities haven't had big value rises lately." I am refering to their value growth rates in relation to small towns value growth rates.

        2) In respect of my comment about not buying in Tokoroa the reporter should have added "at the current level of prices as yields are unsustainably low and rents will prove unsustainably high, especially, when vacancy rates increase. Vacancy rates in small towns always increase significantly when NZ's economy stalls or contracts."

        3) About Australians pushing values to ridiculous levels read my comments in another article in the NZ Herald in January this year as follows:

        Auckland property market analyst Kieran Trass is another who can’t see any signs of a crash this year - save for a couple of exceptions. The inner-city apartment market, especially in Auckland, is due for a noticeable correction, he says. And the outlook for the small town housing market and coastal property is less rosy than last year.

        Trass - an analyst with the Hybrid Group - says inner-city apartment rents are already under downward pressure. He cites the example of a studio apartment in central Auckland whose owners last week dropped the rent from $350 a week to $200 - to secure a tenant for three months.

        Too many apartments are being built, and people are already trying to dispose of them, says Trass. That situation will only worsen over the next year, he believes. "It’s not going to be pretty." The good side of that, he adds, is that tenants can benefit from the glut of available apartments and upgrade without facing too much of a hike in rents.

        Home values in small towns of New Zealand face a correction too, he says, adding that values there got too high and out of proportion with values in main centres, and that bubble will soon burst. Owners of coastal properties should also brace themselves for a downward correction, he says. Despite the general belief that coastal property never goes down in value, it can. "It will go down in value if it gets pushed to ridiculous prices, and it’s already at ridiculous prices."
        Kieran Trass

        Comment

        • muppet
          Banned
          • Sep 2003
          • 10593

          #5
          Hi Kieran

          You said:
          2) In respect of my comment about not buying in Tokoroa the reporter should have added "at the current level of prices as yields are unsustainably low and rents will prove unsustainably high, especially, when vacancy rates increase. Vacancy rates in small towns always increase significantly when NZ's economy stalls or contracts."
          Phew mate, you had me going there for a while.

          However, I fully agree with you on your clarification. Some prices in some areas of Tokoroa are unsustanibly high compared to the rents they are getting. But the feeding frenzy from those outside of Tokoroa continues unabated.

          I was looking in Harveys window the other day when an Asian couple started looking and the look of joy on their faces when they saw what they thought were low priced houses was worrying.

          Still there is a feeling of optimism that things are going to happen in Tokoroa in the near future continues to blossom.

          Regards

          Comment

          • Dean@Massiveaction
            Giving life my best shot
            • Jun 2005
            • 5213

            #6
            Never argue with Kieran, he knows his stuff!! Anecdotally talk to anyone in an inner city apartment. It's hard to find someone who isn't paying less rent than they were a year ago and you can buy top quality apartments in the inner city for 30% off RV in almost every buildign around town at the moment.

            As to the market overall I hope I'm wrong and they keep going up but it would be stupid to assume that cycles that have consistently run for generations will not continue. The people who are saying things are going to keep going are mostly real estate agents and with some notable exceptions agents are very uninformed about their own industry and many of them haven't even heard of the property cycle, let alone understood it.,
            I am finding at the moment that properties are just not selling in some areas. Ive got 3 deals almost under contract at over 20% below RV because vendors just can't get a sale. And they're all ma and pa area 4 bedroom boxes!! I can't wait for the next 6 months. It'll be buy up time for those with funds!!

            Comment

            • Josko
              Fanatical
              • Dec 2004
              • 2075

              #7
              Hi 8310,

              Interesting stats, 40 % of what value. How big are the apartments in your building what quality are they.

              30% more and I might even want to get in on the act.

              Cheers and welcome.

              Comment

              • 8310
                Freshie
                • Jun 2005
                • 8

                #8
                Thanks for the welcomes...I am STOKED to have stumbled on this site!

                the one i bought is in a good building and I have never had any dramas with it, i bought it for 212K in Jan 1998 and I just refused my one and only offer of 140K (sorry thats 34% down, not 40% as I said before) in May 2005. its a 1br 50sq M.

                It has been tenanted average of 11 months of the year, in '99 I used to get $330 per week and now I get $280

                I reckon there are probably a lot of people who are in my position and are ready to cut their losses before it dips even further, so yeah there will be bargains to be had.

                Im gonna stick it out though, i suppose i might have kids one day and its close to the Uni!!

                Comment

                • muppet
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 10593

                  #9
                  Hi 8310

                  Welcome to the forum.

                  Two questions

                  1. How did you stumble onto the forum?

                  2. You said:
                  I'm gonna stick it out though, I suppose I might have kids one day and its close to the Uni!!
                  Did you pay cash or do you have a mortgage on this apartment?
                  If you have a mortgage you will hang on as long as you can service it I presume?

                  Regards

                  Comment

                  • 8310
                    Freshie
                    • Jun 2005
                    • 8

                    #10
                    i have a mortgage with 13 years left so yeah just going to ride out this low.

                    the thing is i have 1 other place that i own 100% and i just feel i should use that equity to boost my portfolio (i am really just a beginner so still get the fear!) was thinking of buying another apartment.

                    I was surfing around and found landlords.co.nz and a lot of posts said that propertytalk was more active....so here i am!

                    Comment

                    • kalovatt
                      Forum Junkie
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 272

                      #11
                      [
                      I am finding at the moment that properties are just not selling in some areas. Ive got 3 deals almost under contract at over 20% below RV because vendors just can't get a sale. And they're all ma and pa area 4 bedroom boxes!! I can't wait for the next 6 months. It'll be buy up time for those with funds!!]
                      So where is this happening ??? My experiences (in the Sth Akl area) is that stuff is selling furiously at or close to the asking prices.

                      Most properties that I have been chasing have either gone or got contracts on them and all pretty close to the asking price.

                      Comment

                      • Dean@Massiveaction
                        Giving life my best shot
                        • Jun 2005
                        • 5213

                        #12
                        Hi Kalovatt.
                        2 in Papakura and 1 in Pakuranga. I am mostly chasing stuff 300K plus as that reduces the competition. From what you say the bottom end stuff is still hot.

                        Comment

                        • kalovatt
                          Forum Junkie
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 272

                          #13
                          Hi pooomba,

                          Yes it is in the low-end stuff. Most of the properties I have looked at are absolute rubbish too.

                          Maybe I should lift my game...

                          Thanks for that

                          Cheers

                          Comment

                          • Josko
                            Fanatical
                            • Dec 2004
                            • 2075

                            #14
                            Hi 8310,

                            I fear for those that might get caught up in the correction in the apartment market, especially in the lesser sized apartment market where the current owners will have to carry the loss until the market raises again to meat those losses. We have to live with that now, and if what Keiran Trass forecasts comes to pass then the market will mature into its appropriate segments.

                            At 80% LVR that is around the 7% gross mark, not to rough an investment to carry into the long term.

                            Again welcome, there is a good number of genuine people here willing to help in everyway, so no matter what the question throw it out there, we all learn and lift in the sharing of opinions and experiences.

                            Cheers,

                            Comment

                            • Dean@Massiveaction
                              Giving life my best shot
                              • Jun 2005
                              • 5213

                              #15
                              Kalovatt,
                              If you've got access to funding bigger deals, they're definitely easier to negotiate and a lot less competition.

                              Comment

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