Leaving... Well not quite today :)

[Monid]

Dear Property Talk Members
I've been offered a lecturing position at the University of Ulster in Northern Ireland which I am going to take.

I am basically looking for advice and answers to various questions from people who either have imigrated or have some knowledge about it.

1. We are going keep our properties here, they are all cashflow positive and should make $100-$200 over their expenses a week (Depending on the accuracy of our repair guestimates) The plan is basically to let this accumulate in a revolving credit account and to use this to pay down the fixed mortages when each becomes unfixed. This will also serve as a buffer in case one of the houses has a huge repair bill. Any advice in terms of this strategy?

2. We are unsure whether we ought to buy over there or rent. The contract is for three years at first but I would anticipate that it will be extended, and that we may spend at least the next 5 years over in the UK and could indeed end up there forever. However prices there are higher than here, and I know they have just been booming, do people think we ought to rent or buy? Why?

3. How much does it cost to live over there? What are weekly food bills like, power, rates etc?

4. How do we go about opening a Bank Account over there from over her any tips?

5. transfering large wads of cash, what is the best way to switch about $15000 NZ into Pounds?

6. Transfering stuff. What is the cheapest or best way to move our furniture and personal effects over, or should we sell it all and start over?

7. Any other useful hints or advice?

[Muddle]

Hi Monoid

I moved my family, including the dog, from Australia several years ago. I found it to be both exciting and challenging time. Will try and answer some of your questions.

1: Excellent idea keeping your properties. We kept our Sydney house and rented it out, gave ourselves one year over here and if we didn't like it we had something to go back to. Make sure you have someone you can trust to act as your property manager.

2: Rent a house over there firstly. It would be foolish in my opinion to buy one straight away. Check out your options and use the skills you have picked up on PT and buy a bargin

3: I speak to relatives over there ( UK ) on the phone, who have also visited us in Aus & NZ. They say the cost of living over there is very high compared to both AU and NZ. Can't give specifics, hopefully someone else can.

4: Many banks are international now. Firstly check with your own bank if they have a branch in the UK. If they can not help then ring HSBC or Barclays in NZ. Once you have established an account over there then you can address no. 5

5: I used fourex to transfer my money. But I first did my homework. Many financial institutions offer varying rates of exchange. For a one off transfer of 15k I would not be to fussy. I think at the time you intend to transfer the money you will have 101 other things on your mind. Sometimes it pays to take the easiest way rather than to try and save a few $$$.

6: We didn't shop around when we picked a removalist. One was highly recomended to us and their prices where reasonable so we used them. What we did do to save some money was to pack the smaller stuff ourselves. The removalists supplied the cartons and tape and we did the rest. Check out your electrical whiteware, radios ect to see if they are compatable to the UK system. Seem to remember that the plugs are different from when I was there about 20 years ago. But don't take that as gospel according to Muddle I would consider selling some of the larger household items. You will have to weigh up the cost replacing them over there as to how much they cost to move over. Your removalist rep should be able to fill you in on that and many other things. I would get a rep around asap.


7: You may have to stay at friends/hotels for a while or rent a furnished flat while your furniture is in transit. Make plans for that as well.
Keep in mind that if you have excessive luggage on the plane you will have to pay a premium for it. So make sure you travel lightish. Do not be shy and get plenty of quotes. The removalists work mostly on a cubic measurment. ie: total household 20 cubic meters = $x. We recheck their fugures once we had just about everything packed and stacked and came up with about 15 cubic meters ( can't remember exactly how much ). Phoned the rep who remeasured and adjusted out price accordingly Looked completly different once our furniture was stacked in the back of a truck.

Good luck, Barry

[cube]

As a 'double-backer'* in moving from UK to NZ, my advice would be to store your stuff here, rather than selling it or taking it with you.

If you do decide to stay, you will have to arrange disposal, but so long as there is any chance that you'll be back, leave the stuff here in dry, secure storage.

Why is this?

Because if you do come back, the whole shipping exercise will have proved a very expensive way of moving house within NZ (maybe not even that, if you come back to the same place). By the time you've been there and back, you'll have spent enough for a deposit on you next IP!

Obviously, there will be some sentimental things that you'll take with you - I'm talking beds, tables, chairs etc. Expensive to shift, and easily replaced.

You'll be in the thick of the student population - if anyone knows where to find a bargain to re-furnish your new house, they will.

Electrical equipment - UK is 240V with a different plug. We've never had an issue in using stuff from there here or vice-versa. Leave the TV in storage - different bands are used in UK. The video can be re-tuned for about £25 - maybe easier to buy a new one. DVD should be OK, so long as it is multi-zone (most are these days, or can be easily re-programmed).

$NZ15K will disappear pretty quickly I'm afraid - you'll need to rely mostly on your UK earnings to pay UK prices - checkout some of the UK online shops for an idea of prices:

http://www.tesco.com/
http://www.asda.com
http://www.argos.co.uk

I'd definitely rent to start with - you need time to scout around and find the area where you feel most at home before committing to purchase, but as soon as you decide that its for the medium to long term, jump on that property ladder quickly before it goes ballistic again!

I don't know N.I. at all, but like most areas of the UK it will have good and bad areas, and IP opportunies may be more available there than elsewhere as it distances itself from the troubles of the past and becomes a good (or better) place to live.


All the best - I'm sure you'll keep an eye on NZ through PT!

cube

* - sold up, moved to NZ, sold up moved back to UK, sold up, moved back to NZ. Brought house, had kids, got business STAYING!!!

[llama]

Hi Monid,

nice to get the opportunity to return the favour of your advice re: student debt and mortgages...

My partner and I have been living in the US for a year, and are in the process of returning to NZ. Of course, the UK is going to be different, but I have a couple of things that might help you out:

1. We took about NZ$20,000 with us, via bank cheque in US dollars. You can pick the time to convert (to your advantage, hopefully) and the cheque is valid for up to 6 months I think (check that, because i'm not sure if the money disappears into a black hole after it expires). So, we made it out to ourselves (so it can only be deposited into an account in your name), opened a free chequing account here when we arrived, and used the bank cheque as our opening balance. It's definitely a cheaper way to go than travellers cheques (which have quite large fees associated with them), but I don't know how it compares to wire transfers from NZ-UK. US Banks usually charge about a US$20 fee on incoming wires, and you don't have the 6 month period in which to pick the exchange rate - i.e. you have to take the one that's relevant at the moment of transfer. It meant we could take advantage of a peak in the exchange rate. I haven't looked into transfers via services like fourex etc (and I don't know how their exchange rates stack up), so that would be worth comparing.

2. This wasn't one of your questions, but being an academic it might be helpful for you... The US postal service has what's called an "M-Bag" (stands for mail-bag, i think) rate which is a much lower postage rate for sending books and printed materials internationally. You have to have a minimum of 11lbs, and a maximum of 66lbs per M-Bag. You can only include books for the lowest rate, but there's a slightly higher tier for other printed materials, CDs, various other media. You have to pack it all into boxes, and then fit it inside the actual "M-Bag" which is a large mail sack. The book-rate is US$1 per lb (i.e. a 66lb bag will cost you US$66). It goes by surface (up to 6 weeks, i think...maybe longer), and everything in the bag has to go to the same address. Just thought the UK or NZ postal service might have something similar that would be useful to you...

3. There's a useful site (that's especially well-used by UK academics, i think) called www.sabbaticalhomes.com . It lists rentals and house-exchanges that you might find helpful.

congratulations on the position!

[Jarrod]

Hi Monid.
Well done on the new position. Ireland is fantastic. In regards to move currency, try a company called Hifx. They are a UK based company (one of the fastest growing companies in the UK) specialising in foreign exchange. They give a better rate than the banks and do NOT charge a commision. They also give you more options as to when you want the transfer to happen, and also work with banks to help with gaining finance in the country you are moving to. They have an office in Auckland.

Ph 09 306 3700

https://www.hifx.co.nz

I would recommend these guys weather moving money from NZ to UK or vice versa. They are not a bank so they treat you like a human.

Hope it all goes well.

Jarrod Dove
Dove Property Management

[Monid]

Thanks for the information guys.

Especially the links, and the info about the TV/Video, that saves some hassle!

I take your point about doubling back Cube, but at this stage we are trying to get ourselves declared non-resident for tax purposes since the tax rates are considerably lower in Northern Ireland (Basically another $5000 NZ in our pockets a year if we are Non-Resident) this apparently means we have to make sure that we don't have an enduring relationship with New Zealand or the appearance that we will return... Keeping our stuff in storage looks like a clear indication we intend to come back.

Actually on that note if anyone knows who we could talk to about appropriate structures etc to ensure or aid us getting the holy grail of non-residency some advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers Monid
& Of course I will still be checking Property Talk from Ireland!

[wildwest]

I've checked the registered banks in Ireland, and they do not have much info on their websites about opening accounts. I emailed a couple and they say if you want to know about opening accounts, you will need to call one of their branches.

Here's a quote from TSB building society
"To open an account with permanent tsb you are normally required to attend a branch in person and supply identification in the form of a passport or a driver's licence, 6 months bank statements and a utility bill confirming your name and address. The branch would then be able to facilitate your request. Given that your friend is abroad and may not yet have an address in Ireland, you will need to contact one of our branches to confirm what documentation they will require to open an account by post as it is not possible to do so via the internet."

Bank of Ireland said the same. The branch contact details are on their websites. A list of all Irish Banks can be found at this URL http://www.portalino.it/banks/_ie.htm

It's convenient to have your account open and waiting for you when you get there. Banks like National Bank have an arrangement with overseas banks in UK as well, so they can help set this up in advance.

From experience, I know that HSBC doesn't offer this service.

I have had friends that have talked to Thomas Cook, as they also have arrangements with banks overseas, and could advise you on requirements.

Hope this helps

[miss]

Regarding the banking - if you can open one before you get there, then do it. I opened my Midlands account through the ASB, however that was some time ago and I am not sure if they still offer this.

The banking in the UK is not what we are used to here. Even once you have opened an account there can be a long period before they are happy to offer you things like cheque books and the like, which we kind of take for granted (or no longer use due to the electronic systems we have). WHile I was there a long time ago, people I know there now are amazed at the things that eihter take a long time to set up or aren't a service offered by the UK banks. Try to have as much of that organised before you leave and it will make life easier once you get there.

In NI there will be definite areas to avoid due to political reasons, I am sure that there are people involved with the Uni that will be able to reccomend which ones to avoid. I certainly found the stereotype of the friendly happy Irishman to be very true.

Good luck and enjoy! I have a friend lecturing in Dublin and he loves it - the lifestyle in Ireland is very relaxed, I should imagine there are many similarities in NI. Once you start earning pounds the cost of living seems irrelevant.

[CJ]

open a bank account before you come - preferably months in advance so you get yoru cards sent to NZ as this is a major hastle. Once you activeate a card you have to wait 10 days till they send you out your pin! Go to your bank and ask. They will all have a contact. i think ASB uses HSBC now.

Re cost of living, it is higher if converting into NZ$ but fine in £. Depends on where you are living. Hopefully you will be close to a budget airport (ie easyjet or Ryanair) so you can enjoy the cheap travel. Give it 6 months and you will forget about the NZ$ (unless you have to send money home to cover the mortgage as I had to for the first 3 months).

It is covered in antoher thread but the rentals wont give yo a problem with lossing your NZ residence.

Agree you should rent first. Especially if you are in a student area, there will be heaps of rentals. In london anyway most places come fully furnished so no need to worry about the furniture either.

[lissie]

Ahh - I wouldnt think that a few sticks of furniture is going to declare you non-tax resident - the properties you have are going to definitly do you on that one - plus any relatives you may inconveniently have lying around the coutny :-( There is however a tax treaty with UK so you should be ok - our tax is lower than there's I should think. You may wantto check on possible CGT on unrelaised gains though - the ozzies want it from ex-pat NZers but I dont know about the UK law . See good accountant advice

[Sapphire]

You may wantto check on possible CGT on unrelaised gains though - the ozzies want it from ex-pat NZers

We are in Oz and have an IP in Auck which we owned as our own home for 3 yrs before coming to Melb on a 12 mth contract. We kept it as we were intending to return after that time but are still in Melb nearly 6 yrs later. As I understand it, we have until 6 yrs after entry to Oz to sell without incurring CG tax here (that day is looming fast - 26 June 2005!). Something I read on one of the tax websites a couple of yrs ago, I think. Maybe I should recheck, but we aren't selling anyway.

Sapphire