Should I Pay off my Student Loan then Move to Aussie?

[ENP]

21 years old. $40k full time job. roughly $25k left on my student loan (hopefully have it payed off in 2-3 years).

Once it's payed off, should I permanently move to Aussie, UK and work for a while?

John Key has just sent Generations X and Y a clear message: Leave the country now

Mainly because of this statement. HOW AND WHY IS AUSSIE MUCH BETTER FOR 20 YEAR OLDS?

[brokerman]

No clear answer here I fear. All I can tell you is I am just over 50, have lived all over the world from US to Mongolia (honest!) and NZ is THE place to be, trouble is you Kiwis (I'm only a trainee) don't realise how lucky you are with your beautiful country!

[ENP]

I'm not going to get on the first plane out of here or anything. I too love NZ but I'm just wondering why so many young people are moving to OZ?

[CJ]

What is your profession? What job would you do in the other country. What do the other countries pay? Do you want to see the world?

I did an OE. Lived in london for 3 years in my profession (ie. i didn't work at a pub). I saw some amazing things which would probably cost over $500k and take 20 years if I did by way of 2-3 week holidays every couple of years from NZ. I came back with enough money for a deposit on a house which will be suitable till retirement.

I am now back and enjoy being back with the exception of the travel.

[flyernzl]

Yes.
I would if I was 21 again.

[ENP]

Is it just because of the higher wages?

[Winston001]

Oooo....tough question. I'm now saying to my teenage children that they should think of Australia in terms of career, not just NZ.

I have watched Australia for 25 years. Compared to NZ it is over-regulated, has 19th century racial attitudes, and various levels of corruption. Despite that, it is a vibrant nation of enthusiastic people with far more diverse work opportunities than here.

The negatives I mention above are avoided by most average people and its an attractive place to go at least to make a nest-egg. Plus NZ is a short and cheap plane ride away.

NZ by comparison is a beautiful remote unpopulated place. Our quality of life is at the top of the scale and ultimately money can't replace that.

[Mark_B]

Winston

Could you provide examples of the over-regulation and corruption that you refer to in Australia?

NZ by comparison is a beautiful remote unpopulated place.

Unpopulated alright (although Australia has a far lower population density, so if you want remote...)

And as the saying goes - NZers will do anything for their country, except live in it.

Our quality of life is at the top of the scale and ultimately money can't replace that.

NZ's quality of life is so great that around 1 million NZers choose not to live here. Isn't that the ultimate endorsement?

[Winston001]

Winston

Could you provide examples of the over-regulation and corruption that you refer to in Australia?

Certainly. Queensland, New South Wales, and Western Australia have all convened Royal Commissions of Inquiry into police corruption in recent years. Victoria has had to establish an Office of Police Integrity. Not a step any government takes willingly.

Regulation? We complain here loudly about the Resource Management Act but the Australians are equally burdened by environmental laws and regulations. In many places it is unlawful to cut down a tree despite the bush-fire danger. Witness the results last year.

One man reportedly did fell some trees before the fires. He was fined $50,000 - but his house didn't burn.

Unlike NZ there is a three tier government structure. Thus not only do you have the usual local-body by-laws, plus State govt laws, you also have to know Federal Govt laws. And the differences between states.

Unpopulated alright (although Australia has a far lower population density, so if you want remote...)

NZ's quality of life is so great that around 1 million NZers choose not to live here. Isn't that the ultimate endorsement?

The vast majority of Australians live on the coast so for them, their local population is quite dense. But I agree there are wonderfully remote places in Oz. Just as there are here but closer.

I don't know where you get the 1 million figure from but won't argue. I'd suggest a similar number applies to ex-pat Aussies. Both nations are at the extremes of the earth from their European gene pool and make great efforts to travel. Both nations have a reputation for being high percentage passport holders. Many Americans never even consider a passport.

[brokerman]

Have to agree with above. I would not like to be a mortgage broker in Oz. Worse than the FSA in the UK and that was bad enough!

Almost all population centres are coastal and most people want to live on the east coast. My sis live on northern beaches Sydney. From the Airport it take 90 mins and it is 95% urban sprawl all the way. I live similar north of Auckland, airport takes an hour and a lot is still country-side.

There are huge differences in property tax

Corruption seems to be rife, look at recent events regarding drug dealing in Queensland and how the hell did underbelly stuff happen without action?

Plus there are things that bite n sting and swimming might be called a bit of a lottery. Add to that, if you are not (careful how I say this) white european type of person, you may find many Ozzies uncomfortable.

[Dean@Massiveaction]

You only have to sit in a cafe in Broadbeach for an hour to understand why Gen Y is moving to OZ, especially Queensland. Jobs everywhere, beautiful women, fast cars, sunshine everyday, cafes, pubs, casinos, world class entertainment, the list goes on.

[mortgage broker]

21 years old. $40k full time job. roughly $25k left on my student loan (hopefully have it payed off in 2-3 years).

Once it's payed off, should I permanently move to Aussie, UK and work for a while?

John Key has just sent Generations X and Y a clear message: Leave the country now

Mainly because of this statement. HOW AND WHY IS AUSSIE MUCH BETTER FOR 20 YEAR OLDS?

Probably best to leave now and pay of your student loan from abroad.

[lissie]

Can't believe no one has said the obvious - they have bloody good weather - you can not only look at the sea you can swim in it without a wet suit!

I just came back from 2 years in Perth -ideal climate IMHO - but yes the over-governance is insane. In theory I had to ask permission from the local council to run a business in my home - my business involved connecting my laptop to the Internet - oops forgot to pay $200 for the priviledge. The weather made up for it though (only came back for family reasons)

Oh and the medical system ? I just paid about 1/2 for a tooth cap than I was quoted in Australia some 18 months ago. At least as a under 30 you won't be quoted a stupid price for medical insurance because you haven't been insured since you were 30 (insurance in NZ doesnt count)

Australia isn't perfect . The state system is a joke. Perth doesn't have daylight savings (it gives kids jetlag) or Sunday shopping or more than one late night a week - net result I ahven't parked IN the mall's car park on a Sat ever - usually 5 min walk down the road.

Don' rely on booking a taxi in Perth to the airport for an early flight -they don't guarantee to turn up - on the return trip expect to queue for upwards of an hour - also expect to queue at 2am when the bars shut - but be careful - thats when the fights start - they put more security on the queues - didn't even discuss deregulating the taxi industry LOL!

NZ is hugely easiler to do business in terms of taxs - but to the OP -why the hell are you hesitating - I was on the first flight out after I saved the one way fare in 1983 - NZ is very, very small corner of the world - go and live a little! Go while you can still get a working holiday permit in many countries, go before you end up tied up with family commitments. Not sure why you have to wait to pay of your loan -given exchange rates its usually easier to pay off debt earning non-NZ $ income.

Also amused to see this debate still happened - its never discussed in Australia - and NZers have always gone overseas - what exactly has changed ? Nothing I think?

[Mark_B]

Queensland (1987-1989), New South Wales (1994-1997), and Western Australia (2002) have all convened Royal Commissions of Inquiry into police corruption in recent years.

Some of those were quite some time ago.

Power corrupts - and I don't think it is just an Australian thing.

The NZ Police Force hasn't been without its scandals.

Victoria has had to establish an Office of Police Integrity. Not a step any government takes willingly.

You mean, like the Independent Police Conduct Authority in NZ?

Regulation? We complain here loudly about the Resource Management Act but the Australians are equally burdened by environmental laws and regulations.

No arguments here.

One man reportedly did fell some trees before the fires. He was fined $50,000 - but his house didn't burn.

I'm not arguing about that either.

But having a house survive a bushfire is as much about luck as it is preparation. Hot embers can travel many kilometres on a super-heated gale-force wind and no amount of tree-felling can stop that.

And one of the bizarre things about bushfires is that they've been known to completely destroy 90% of houses in an area - but leave that other 10% completely untouched. That's just luck.



An aerial view of a fire-devastated Chauvel Circle in the suburb of Chapman on January 21, 2003 in Canberra, where 15 of 20 homes in the street were destroyed by fire - see http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2009/08/19/2660393.htm


But I will say that, imo, that whole saga is pretty disgusting. What happened last year was a tragedy by any definition, but it wasn't as though it had never happened before. Ash Wednesday (75 dead) in 1983, Canberra (4 dead, 500 houses destroyed) in 2003, etc. Why Australians living in bushfire areas don't have fireproof bunkers the way Americans living in Tornado Alley have storm bunkers is beyond me.

Unlike NZ there is a three tier government structure. Thus not only do you have the usual local-body by-laws, plus State govt laws, you also have to know Federal Govt laws. And the differences between states.

Is Australia over-governed? Unquestionably.

But the three layers each have their responsibilities. It isn't about knowing the laws of each level per se, because they don't overlap.

While there is a well established convention that the state (territory) government can over-ride local governments (local government are instruments of the state [territory] government), and it is also written into the constitution that to the extent state (territory) laws conflict with Commonwealth laws the latter takes precedence - does it affect the day to day lives of 99.99% of people? No.

The vast majority of Australians live on the coast so for them, their local population is quite dense.

By my calculations, the 5 biggest cities in NZ (Auck,Well,CCh,Ham,Dun) represent about 56% of NZ's population. In Australia, the 5 biggest (Syd,Mel,Bris,Per,Adel) are about 59%. Not too far away from each other.

If Sydney had (relatively speaking) as large a population as Auckland, it would be a city of ~6.78m people (not ~4.4m).

But I agree there are wonderfully remote places in Oz. Just as there are here but closer.

Well, NZ's a little smaller.

I don't know where you get the 1 million figure from but won't argue.

I recall hearing it somewhere. There are over 400,000 NZers in Australia.

I'd suggest a similar number applies to ex-pat Aussies.

Quite possibly.

But it's not the number (there are several million US citizens not living in the US), it is the overall percentage - almost 20% of NZers don't call NZ home.

They are well educated (by world standards) and how it isn't a major priority for any Government to do what it can to give them a reason to move back is beyond me.

[Mark_B]

Also amused to see this debate still happened - its never discussed in Australia

It isn't just this debate.

NZ is never discussed in Australia... well, rarely discussed.

Australia isn't perfect .

It isn't. But I'll defend my country of birth.