Where Did We Go Wrong?

[Shalodge]

Democracy.. now we getting to the heart of the matter. Yes Democracy will die when it is not exercised responsibly.. (Foretold by Russell). I remember my parents voting when I was very young. They got dressed up and voted with care and an eye to the future. To them is was the most important thing they could do and took it seriously. The war was still in their minds and their national pride was obvious.

Treason was still on the statue books and was punishable by death. I can only imagine the outrage if our flag had been burnt on the streets. How far we have come and how different things are now. The price of everything and the value of nothing. I often look at the youth today and wonder what happened to us, where did it go so wrong?

Russell

[Perry]

What's Good? Bad? Indifferent?

I often look at the youth today and wonder what happened to us, where did it go so wrong.

Just yesterday, I was having a conversation - deep, meaningful and philosophical - on almost the same thing. It seems too easy to blame the young 'uns. Are they not a manifestation of their parents? Their upbringing? Society? Or a reaction thereto? Instead of the youth of today, my rhetorical question went:

I often look at New Zealand today and wonder what happened to us? Where did we go so wrong?

Somehow, I suspect it's too easy and/or simplistic to blame others, younger or older. But I have pursued this matter, in the past, within my own family. At that time, there were three or four generations around to speak to or about.

My late wife and I had some concerns about what the future held for our children and grand children. What would they inherit?

I asked my parents if they had entertained similar feelings about me and my siblings. Not really.

I then asked if they recalled any such sentiments being expressed by their parents, about them. None.

Yesterday's conversation (mentioned a paragraph or two back) looked at society around us and what had changed. Then I posited why? And was it for the better or otherwise? These types of manifestations:

* Huge growth in childcare centres;
* Both parents working (instead of one home with the children);
* Explosive growth of eldercare facilities;
* So many lawn-mowing contractors. (only a generation or so ago, no self-respecting NZ male would have paid someone to mow their lawns);
* Huge numbers of cafes. (discretionary spending);
* More mini-businesses like home window / oven cleaners, knife sharpeners, car valets. (mopping up older, redundant folks?);
* Vast numbers of fast food outlets;
* Growing separatism; (with the schisms, angst and unrealistic exceptions involved);
* The almost complete end to the ma and pa stores in most CBDs (family businesses);
* The demise of home produce gardens and home bottling / preserving;
* Homes brim-filled with gadgets;
* Indifference to voting;
* Internet addiction / obsession. (instant everything?)

Please suggest additions to the list.

Are the changes which those developments are manifestations of good? Bad? Neutral? To society generally, I mean.

For those that are bad, what is the cure?

[Nick G]

I think it all depends on your own perspective:

Never forget that medical technology is getting better, cars are less polluting, renewable energy is improving and Tesla just pre-sold more electric cars than there are people living in Hamilton and Tauranga combined. I can video call anywhere in the world for free and do so just about every day.

There is an explosive growth of the elderly! People live longer and there is a baby boom rippling through society.

As someone with a working wife (entrepreneur, runs her own business) better childcare and a more accepting society is a good thing. She stayed home for 18 months, it drove her nuts and almost killed her business.

We now hire a nanny 4 days a week (on my wife's payroll) and have one child. She cooks and cleans on the days she is there. Is that good? Bad? I would say it's just different. Nanako provides employment (either staff, franchisee or contractor) for about 20 people. Everything is interconnected.

When I worked in finance I learned to hate my smart phone because it meant I was always plugged into work. As an entrepreneur it means I can run things from anywhere - although recently I'm leaning towards hating it again.

Houses filled with gadgets I'm not a fan of. As someone who uses technology all day I prefer to cook with a knife and a pot. However if we had 3 kids and two corporate jobs we would be leveraging technology with the best of them.

The jury is out on social media, I think it spreads people's attentions too thinly. However at a macro level it's a powerful force in countries with oppressive governments.

I don't know that cafes are a bad thing. I like working in them.

The internet has completely changed the world, for the most part a good thing as it has made information more available and (in general) business more efficient. However pornography is now a massive issue that parents raising boys have to deal with and nobody wants to talk about.

What I think is happening is the current young generation are the children of a relatively wealthy generation. Their (mine) parents went through the depression and WW2. Visit any country where people are raised in comfort and wealth (case a - Japan) and you'll see the same.

[ATM]

Addition to Perry's list:
+ our addiction to the internet which leads to less face to face interaction. Instead of asking mum or grandma we now ask google and forums

[BlueSky]

Our generation is totally dependent on technology and getting society's stamp of approval before carrying on with even the most mundane tasks of our everyday lives.

These days its all about instant gratification. Where as I used to take lunch to work , today it is cafes and latte's. Morals , values and wisdom are on the way out replaced with online presence your personality determine by your selfies and not your true self.

http://elitedaily.com/life/culture/values-morals-society-technology-stole/

[Wayne]

Addition to Perry's list:
+ our addiction to the internet which leads to less face to face interaction. Instead of asking mum or grandma we now ask google and forums

I'd certainly agree with social media like Facebook.
Everyone is either looking for agreement
or worried their life doesn't seem as exciting or interesting as someone else who posts their adventures.
By adventures I mean a couple of interesting things that happened in an otherwise 'normal' day.
Some of their followers miss the point that that covers only a few minutes of a day that is, otherwise, just like theirs.
Makes them anxious that they are missing out.

The youth of today are the same as the youth of our day - just a little different.
But no better or worse - just different.

[PTILoveYou]

Go look up zeitgeist videos on youtube.

3 movie length documentary conspiracy theories.

Very entertaining and thought provoking!

[drelly]

This is not a new complaint!

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

Socrates

[Wayne]

This is not a new complaint!

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

Socrates

Amazing that - people always think todays problems are new but they aren't.
History does repeat - the song was wrong.

[drelly]

15 Historic complaints about young people ruining everything

[iwik]

Just yesterday, I was having a conversation - deep, meaningful and philosophical - on almost the same thing. It seems too easy to blame the young 'uns. Are they not a manifestation of their parents? Their upbringing? Society? Or a reaction thereto? Instead of the youth of today, my rhetorical question went:


Somehow, I suspect it's too easy and/or simplistic to blame others, younger or older. But I have pursued this matter, in the past, within my own family. At that time, there were three or four generations around to speak to or about.

My late wife and I had some concerns about what the future held for our children and grand children. What would they inherit?

I asked my parents if they had entertained similar feelings about me and my siblings. Not really.

I then asked if they recalled any such sentiments being expressed by their parents, about them. None.

Yesterday's conversation (mentioned a paragraph or two back) looked at society around us and what had changed. Then I posited why? And was it for the better or otherwise? These types of manifestations:

* Huge growth in childcare centres;
* Both parents working (instead of one home with the children);
* Explosive growth of eldercare facilities;
* So many lawn-mowing contractors. (only a generation or so ago, no self-respecting NZ male would have paid someone to mow their lawns);
* Huge numbers of cafes. (discretionary spending);
* More mini-businesses like home window / oven cleaners, knife sharpeners, car valets. (mopping up older, redundant folks?);
* Vast numbers of fast food outlets;
* Growing separatism; (with the schisms, angst and unrealistic exceptions involved);
* The almost complete end to the ma and pa stores in most CBDs (family businesses);
* The demise of home produce gardens and home bottling / preserving;
* Homes brim-filled with gadgets;
* Indifference to voting;
* Internet addiction / obsession. (instant everything?)

Please suggest additions to the list.

Are the changes which those developments are manifestations of good? Bad? Neutral? To society generally, I mean.

For those that are bad, what is the cure?

Sorry to hear about your wife champ.

Good list - the Internet is an addiction for many, probably would have bothered me few years
ago when had starri-eyes for people that they have their heads buried in their phones etc but
ended up seeing most people offline just talk about themselves anyway. I have always been
naturally interested in people so do ask questions when I meet people but it is like the other
person gets on a roll and they become the only subject matter. Maybe I would be best to hold
back a bit and let my often fellow shy kiwis ask me some questions first, put up with the usual
lengthy uncomfortable silence ? (Talking about in public in general like at a park, party)

What are your thoughts peeps ?

Take it it has been human nature for decades with Dale Carnigie saying 80 years ago
peoples favourite subject matter is themselves.

[Perry]

Just as financial intelligence doesn't rate a mention at school, neither do conversational studies.

I've seen and experienced some who are 'naturals' at it. I had to learn it the hard way. But it's a very useful thing to know about. Even more useful to have it!

[sidinz]

Just as financial intelligence doesn't rate a mention at school, neither do conversational studies

I get really fed up when people assume that schools/schooling hasn't changed since they were there and use those assumptions to pass judgement on the current curriculum. It has changed hugely. I've taught financial literacy to various Y8 pupils myself and seen it taught at other year groups.

[iwik]

I get really fed up when people assume that schools/schooling hasn't changed since they were there and use those assumptions to pass judgement on the current curriculum. It has changed hugely. I've taught financial literacy to various Y8 pupils myself and seen it taught at other year groups.

Cheers Perry


Agree Sidinz - I had a wonderful economic studies teacher, abeit most of the curriculum
was out of a book but nethertheless all was good. Gave me the quality basics like supply
and demand. To "Build a net" not "Fish with a pole" (Make your money work for you instead
of you working).

Wish they would teach kids in school how to have a two way conversation of
talking and listening or do they do that these days ?

Like Dale said who is the first person you look for when you receive your
school photo ? Maybe the me me attitude is just an inbuilt byproduct
from the need for survival in caveman times and stronger in some
than others.

I'm not alone on my thoughts on this subject, plenty of others have said the same to me.

[Perry]

Just as financial intelligence doesn't rate a mention at school. . .

I get really fed up when people assume that schools/schooling hasn't changed since they were there and use those assumptions to pass judgement on the current curriculum. It has changed hugely. I've taught financial literacy to various Y8 pupils myself and seen it taught at other year groups.

I could be guilty of presuming, yes. But not based on what I was taught, Rather, what my children and grand children were [not] taught at school. I recall collecting my grand daughter on the day she got her first payslip at her first job. She expressed horror that some of her pay had disappeared! Something called "tax," she wailed. Welcome to the the real world, kiddo.

I have offered to arrange some talks/lessons for High School leavers, along with other more-erudite-than-I local PIs, but the offer was declined. You've obviously had better luck. Well done and good to hear. I hope the pupils paid attention and learned a lot.