Consequences of Double Listing

[Scarface]

Hi I have listed a property with an agent and the listing expires on the 19th of Dec, not a good time. Can I advertise it privately and sell it and settle or get a contract made so that it is outside the listing period. The property is vacant and am losing money. The agent has not got a contract for me as yet and thus this step.

What could be the consequences?

Please help.

[FreezingHot]

If you sell in the period you are signed up for, you will pay the agents fee regardless of whether the agent sold the property or not, read the fine print of the contract and you will see that you have an obligation to the agent for that period.

So you probably will have to wait until the agreement expires, I prefer to have an option to sell private should I find the buyer myself, some say that it gives no confidence to the agent but I think it should make them work harder for their comission.

FH

[Scarface]

Thanks for that Patrick. If I can find a buyer and he agrees to do the contract or have the contract dated is that of any help.

Cheers

[spaceman]

I'm not sure but...

I would think that you couldn't dodge the fee by finding a buyer yourself during the listing period and then just getting them to sign the contract once the listing period expires.

I would say that the fine print would specificaly mention this kind of easily anticipated manouver.

I would wait until the period expires and then try to sell......and remember to include a private sale clause for next time

Good luck

Cheers
Spaceman

[Heg]

I would think that you couldn't dodge the fee by finding a buyer yourself during the listing period and then just getting them to sign the contract once the listing period expires.

Why not? If the agent has not introduced the buyer and the contract is signed AFTER the listing has expired then the agent has no right to claim a commission.
Just be VERY certain that the buyer has not given their details to the agent during the listing period.
However -As FH has already pointed out; in future only list with an agent if you reserve the right to sell privately.

[freezinhot]

I agree with Heg on this, if you think it would be beneficial to you as a vendor to also sell your property private put in the clause to sell private.

I know of this very same situation happen to my sister the other day except the role had been reversed.
My sister had been marketing her property privately for about 6 weeks. She held open homes, did flyers, advertised in the local papers at a substantial cost to herself. While all this advertising produced little pen to paper offers, it did bring in interested buyers. One lady in particular came back about 4 times in total, seemingly she seemed interested in the property but because my sister did not follow up on this buyer the opportunatey was missed for a sale.

As my sister was making a move to Australia at the start of next year she had become very anxious to sell and therefore listed an agent to sell her property, the mistake she made was to not add a clause to sell private which could have saved her 16k. A week after she listed with the agent the same lady who had viewed the property came back and through the agent made an offer which was accepted of coarse. If my sister had followed up on this lead she would not only have saved herself money but also the buyer for obvious reasons.

This for me highlighted that if you have put time and money into selling private you need to protect that with a clause to continue to sell private, the agent is singing all the way to the bank now, not his fault as he was just doing his job, but we need to be aware as private sellers some of the pitfalls of not protecting yourself from this type of situation.

I learnt a lot from this as well as my sister I'm sure.

Hope this helps Scarface, if not now maybe in the future.

FH.

[Scarface]

I am sure it will be of help.

Just out of curiosity can one put a clause " subject to the agent reducing his/her margin in terms of commission.

[spaceman]

The fine print that's why

Why not? If the agent has not introduced the buyer and the contract is signed AFTER the listing has expired then the agent has no right to claim a commission.
Just be VERY certain that the buyer has not given their details to the agent during the listing period.
However -As FH has already pointed out; in future only list with an agent if you reserve the right to sell privately.

Like I said before ....I'm not sure but...

I think the listing agreement would specifically cover this in favour of the agent ....ie if the buyer saw the house during the listing agreement period, then the agent is due a comission no matter who introduced him/her, and even if the sale goes ahead once the listing period is over.

I'm sure there have been instances in the past were vendors and buyers have tried to cut out the agent by agreeing to wait untill the listing period is over then signing a contract ....I'm certain some have gotten away with it

Banking on "getting away with it" is awful risky

I could be barking up the wrong tree here .... but I really doubt that RE agents would be giving up their comissions so easily.

cheers
Spaceman

[xris]

I agree with Heg on this, if you think it would be beneficial to you as a vendor to also sell your property private put in the clause to sell private.

I know of this very same situation happen to my sister the other day except the role had been reversed.
My sister had been marketing her property privately for about 6 weeks. She held open homes, did flyers, advertised in the local papers at a substantial cost to herself. While all this advertising produced little pen to paper offers, it did bring in interested buyers. One lady in particular came back about 4 times in total, seemingly she seemed interested in the property but because my sister did not follow up on this buyer the opportunatey was missed for a sale.

As my sister was making a move to Australia at the start of next year she had become very anxious to sell and therefore listed an agent to sell her property, the mistake she made was to not add a clause to sell private which could have saved her 16k. A week after she listed with the agent the same lady who had viewed the property came back and through the agent made an offer which was accepted of coarse. If my sister had followed up on this lead she would not only have saved herself money but also the buyer for obvious reasons.

This for me highlighted that if you have put time and money into selling private you need to protect that with a clause to continue to sell private, the agent is singing all the way to the bank now, not his fault as he was just doing his job, but we need to be aware as private sellers some of the pitfalls of not protecting yourself from this type of situation.

I learnt a lot from this as well as my sister I'm sure.

Hope this helps Scarface, if not now maybe in the future.

FH.

Patrick,

That is an interesting story, but you have drawn totally the wrong conclusion from it. And no, I am not now playing devil's advocate.

Your sister did not sell to the lady because your sister did not have the negotiating skills/pushiness/charm/determination etc to close the deal with a clearly interested buyer. You all but admitted this yourself.

So there was no sale on which to 'save' the commission. Think about it.

Your sister then employed an agent who did have those skills and suddenly a sale occured and the agent was quite rightly paid by your sister.

Two situations could have occured.

1/ No sale, no commission, costly self marketing expenses, a lot of frustration, and an unhappy sister.

2/ A sale, a commission paid, possibly less marketing expenses, somebody else doing all the work, a sister who can move on to pastures greener.

But still you Patrick, and many others, just don't get it. Your sister did not have the ability to sell herself so she paid someone to do it for her. He did the job and all you can think about is how to avoid paying him next time a similar situation arises.

Believe me, in this situation, any reserving the right to sell privately clause probably would not have made any difference because the lady would still have made the offer through the agent, simply because your sister couldn't do the job. And this is not meant in any way to be critical of you or your sister. I am sure you cannot re-roof a house, so would you try? Or would you employ a roofer to do the job? And would you then look back and wonder how you could have saved paying him his money if the same situation arose again?

xris

[FreezingHot]

Xris,

Had I not put in a clause to sell private I would have lost most of my profit to the agent, which was agreed beforehand by both parties, are you then suggesting that if I had done all the hard work doing open homes for 2 hours Sat/Sun, sending flyers through letterboxes etc..
that if my agent brought through a buyer who had been attracted to my property through my advertising campaign that I don't deserve some of the commission the agent gets.

Where is the fairness in that!! I dont think I missed any points at all I just made some very important rules for myself as an investor.

FH

[Heg]

I think the listing agreement would specifically cover this in favour of the agent ....ie if the buyer saw the house during the listing agreement period, then the agent is due a comission no matter who introduced him/her, and even if the sale goes ahead once the listing period is over.

Quite true. If the buyer has been introduced by the agent then you have no option but to pay commission.But as I said in my post

If the agent has not introduced the buyer and the contract is signed AFTER the listing has expired then the agent has no right to claim a commission.
Just be VERY certain that the buyer has not given their details to the agent during the listing period.

[pipple21]

You may want to check the contract, I have heard of some clauses that if you sell the property after 'X amount of time' after their exclusive listing period expires that they are entitled to some commission.
There is an interesting book that lists a lot of this sort of situations. I shall hunt it down and post later.

[pipple21]

'real estate secrets' by andy gilbert
Written from a real estate agents point of view, goes through most cases in detail.

[Scarface]

Can you negotiate agents commission on a s&p as a condition?

[Heg]

Can you negotiate agents commission on a s&p as a condition?

You would normally negotiate is at time of listing (on the listing form) or at time of selling verbally with the salesperson.
It does not go onto the S an P as it does not form part of the contract. The S and P is between the vendor and buyer