What makes for a good PI educator?

[Paul34]

Once a month I have a good read of the posts on PT and always learn something new. The recent threads on the whole RM issue made me think about what qualifies as good teaching in this space.

I figured this would be an interesting thread as often we discuss what we don't like but have not said with clarity what we do.

Let me start the ball rolling:

1) No sizzle just facts: Much like university or any std education.

2) Track record of the presenter that is independently verifiable and open: Again like uni where you knw what the lecturers have written.

3) Good support material: Books, videos etc.

4) Concise.

5) Statistics: This is a numbers ganme after all so real numbers on success and not just case studies.

6) Questions answered in a straighforward, frank and open manner again like any uni.

But that is me. It appears that some people like the hype, like the idea of gurus to worship and don't give a hoot about stats so I was wondering. What would good PI education look like and who is leading this charge?

[whitt]

Well done Paul34 I agree with them all but like items 1&2 you mentioned most.

[Monid]

Hi Paul
Nice idea for a thread.
I'd like to add:
8. Emphasis on Goal Setting
9. Training in individual purchase planning
10. Knowledge of a wide range of strategies not just the flavour of the month.
11. Training in what to do when something goes wrong.
12. Support and encouragement to take risks, but also appropriate levels of caution as well.
13. Teach critical thinking.
14. Teach active learning.
15. A good teacher.

I like all of your suggestions but I should say a wee bit about 2 And an often made claim, namely that you ought not teach about PI unless you are a big successful property investor.

I think this claim is fallicious. Think about your maths teacher at school. Often those teachers which are best at maths are the worst at maths teaching, they have an intuitive understanding of maths that makes it easy for them.

What I am trying to get at is being good at something doesn't make you a good teacher of it, and vice versa being a good teacher of something isn't dependent on being good at that thing.

I still think that an open and honest track record is important, not because we should judge an educator by the size of their portfolio, but instead because we should judge them by their willingness to be open and honest.

David

[Dean@Massiveaction]

Couldn't agree more David regarding success as no qualification to teach. However I think a good teacher without experience, when it comes to PI, would be a bit scary.

[Monid]

I agree possibly a bit scary.

But there are other ways to get experience than actually doing something. We can of course learn from other peoples successes (and mistakes). Hopefully this is actually a part of what people get when they are taught by a good educator.

So put it this way Dean, suppose you sit down with someone and teach them everything you know about property investing. A couple of years later (Since I know you know a fair bit ) they then turn around and start teaching others. Would that be inappropriate?

I don't think so, if you can do a good job teaching someone to be a great property investor, then with a bit more time you can teach someone to be a good teacher of property investing. The essential knowledge and skills are the same.

David

[Monid]

Hi Veronica may be I'm having a bad afternoon for it, but I don't think I follow?

The central question seems to be (correct me if I'm wrong Paul) "What would good PI education look like"

And I just can't relate your post to that. Do you mean that good PI education isn't needed? That those that seek it really shouldn't bother?

The first seems unlikely surely we are going to generally be better property investors the better educated we are about property investing?

As for the second it seems a bit unfair, I would think if people seek education they ought to find it. Actually I think that is the wonderful thing about PT, its a great place to ask questions and to learn things even if what you sometimes learn is search for your question before posting it since almost certainly someone else has asked it before! But the community here is particularly supportive of new investors asking what from the more experienced investors point of view are silly questions.

Or are you simply suggesting, as I suspect many of us agree, that some of those who put themselves up as property educators are dodgy?

David

[revdev]

Or are you simply suggesting, as I suspect many of us agree, that some of those who put themselves up as property educators are dodgy?

Plenty of recent threads on this :yawn: , however as Paul34 suggested lets discuss what we DO LIKE..!!

Sorry, must go get coffee....

G

[Monid]

Hi Veronica
I agree much of good property investing is simply good commonsense, good budgeting skills & actually doing the DD. But I find at least myself that sometimes when I read some of that educational material and it is explained in a different way something goes click, and suddenly I see more possibilities. Its like when you first realise the power of leverage. So I think there is still a place for property education, though I must admit I share the suspicion of self proclaimed "Experts".

But I think what I was trying to say subtly, and Revdev is saying a bit more bluntly is that while you are right and this is of course important:

Interesting, but, I think it is important how information is provided as many people falsely make a living off of this stuff and by default others make bad investment decisions.

This isn't the best thread for it, which is trying to understand what a good property educator would be like, not what characteristics the bad ones have.

David

[cube]

A bit disjointed, this discussion

A good teacher would be able to teach well any subject that they put there mind to, but it also helps if they are passionate about what they are teaching, which is why willing mentors who have 'been there, done that' can be fantastic.

However, you can be passionate about a subject without having to have 'been there, done that', and still be a superb teacher - anyone who has caught a bug for learning about history from a history teacher would have to agree with that.

In a subject in which the only results are what you do with the information, e.g. property investing, sports, options etc. rather than some academic test of your knowledge, the practical advice that a seasoned practioner can bring to the table is very valuable. But it cannot make up for a fundamental inability to teach with a passion that gets the students excited about what is being taught.

cube

[Heg]

I'm lost. Where are veronica's posts that Monid keeps referring to?

[Paul34]

I see Consumer had some points around education in this area as well.


http://www.consumer.org.nz/newsitem.asp?category=News&docid=2695&sTitle=It's% 20get-rich-quick%20season&topic=Get-rich-quick%20season#remember

Some of these even match the ones we are coming up with.

Monid: On that favourite thread perhaps you could have one on Property educators that would allow those looking for learning the ability to look for themselves.

[Paul34]

The other question is Price:

For example if a course is charged at 3900-5k for three days is that really excessive. I actually don't think so and think that there are plenty of examples of other institutions that would charge a similar amount but if we are defining what is required a cost would be of interest to.

On this how many days are actually required. HOW QUICK COULD SOMEONE LEARN THE PROPERTY GAME if all the rara stuff was left out??

This is an interesting question as I think tthe answer shows why it attracts so many in that it is pretty straight forward in the knowledge side although the doing and reality is where the real lessons are.

[Re@der]

But this forum and it's participants do not usually put themselves out to be educators. Just people with an opinion, perhaps some experience and a mind open enough to learn from others

[xris]

What I am trying to get at is being good at something doesn't make you a good teacher of it, and vice versa being a good teacher of something isn't dependent on being good at that thing.

[quote=Monid;54536]



Totally and utterly and unequivocally correct.

I always find it amusing how so many top performing sportsmen and sportswomen are expected to be top TV sports presenters as well. A good presenter can present anything.

Similarly, a good teacher can teach anything, up until the level where the lack of detailed specialist knowledge becomes a serious handicap.

Who would you chose to teach your 13 year old social science (or English come to that), a 21 year old graduate fresh out of university with a degree in social science (or English) or a respected maths teacher with twelve years experience on the classroom floor?

Another element to this is the credibility issue, which relates partly to what I just said above about a teacher not teaching a subject that is technically too specialist for him or her.

This will not really be an issue with younger children but may be with older children and adults. But, perhaps less so than you might think.

However, the critical prerequisite is that the person can stand up in front of people and convey information. A great structures accountant is little use at a seminar in front of fifty people if he mumbles, talks technical jargon and keeps walking from side to side while looking at the floor. You are much better off having an experienced year 11 geography teacher standing there. At least the year 11 teacher can scrub up on the facts over the preceding day and have no problem presenting them.

Not often do you get an expert in a field who is also an expert teacher, although there are more like this at the higher levels. Paul and David would be perfect examples of these exceptional few (of course).

xris

[Monid]

I'm lost. Where are veronica's posts that Monid keeps referring to?

I'm afraid Veronica decided that they did distract from the original aim of the thread, so she deleted them. I thought it was a pity she did since I did think she made some excellent points. In particular, and I hope she doesn't mind me stealing this from her pm to me she pointed out that books, seminars and other people only provide information, what you do with that information and whether it becomes education is up to the individual who recieves it.

David