What makes for a good PI educator?

[Monid]

I always find it amusing how so many top performing sportsmen and sportswomen are expected to be top TV sports presenters as well. A good presenter can present anything.

In the British context I always find it amusing that being a good player of football seems to be a prequisite of being a football manager... The skills of a football manager and a player are fairly different.

Similarly, a good teacher can teach anything, up until the level where the lack of detailed specialist knowledge becomes a serious handicap.

Anyway back to the good teacher can teach anything... I'm stealing from my mothers research here for which I apologise but the reason for this is that a good teacher is an excellent learner. To teach well you need to understand how to learn well.

[COLOR=black] A great structures accountant is little use at a seminar in front of fifty people if he mumbles, talks technical jargon and keeps walking from side to side while looking at the floor.

Sounds like you are describing my teaching methods

Not often do you get an expert in a field who is also an expert teacher, although there are more like this at the higher levels. Paul and David would be perfect examples of these exceptional few (of course).

Still a flatterer I see!
But flattery aside, though you do get more 'experts in a field' in tertiary education, you don't get many who are expert teachers.

Teachers at a secondary and primary level are I think typically better teachers than academics, because teachers spend considerably more time and effort thinking about pedagogy. Many academics see teaching as a bothersome distraction that they have to do so they can get on with the good stuff namely researching.

Its not an opinon I share but it is rife in academia.

Anyway this has all lead to something else to add to Pauls list, namely that a good property educator would either have formal training in pedagogy or considerable teaching experience.

David

[Heg]

[COLOR=black]However, the critical prerequisite is that the person can stand up in front of people and convey information. A great structures accountant is little use at a seminar in front of fifty people if he mumbles, talks technical jargon and keeps walking from side to side while looking at the floor.

Soooo true. I have attended my fair share of Property Investing seminars and certain 'guest experts' that have been asked to speak have been painful to listen to. No idea of how to convey information to their audience and no presentation skills whatsoever. Result - a room full of people who go away from the seminar thinking that they have paid a lot of money for nothing.

[Perry]

However, the critical prerequisite is that the person can
stand up in front of people and convey information.
A great structures accountant is little use at a seminar
in front of fifty people if he mumbles, talks technical
jargon and keeps walking from side to side while
looking at the floor.

Soooo true. I have attended my fair share of Property
Investing seminars and certain 'guest experts' that have
been asked to speak have been painful to listen to. No idea
of how to convey information to their audience and no
presentation skills whatsoever. Result - a room full of
people who go away from the seminar thinking that
they have paid a lot of money for nothing.

That is the fault of the Seminar 'operator,' far more so
than the presenter. The operator simply hasn't done
their homework. The solution to that particular problem
is to put an interlocutor into the mix.

Years ago, I watched one akin to Xris' description. The
guy has so much experience and knowledge that the
audience was simply 'hanging-out' to obtain. Yet it was
very trying. I don't recall if it was keys or coins, but the
speaker was difficult hear, over the rattling noise coming
from his damned pocket as he jiggled whatever!!

Hell, even chalk juggling would've been better.

As for being peripatetic, Xris, it's a technique that does
work to good effect, if one's thoughful about it's use.

[xris]

As for being peripatetic, Xris, it's a technique that does
work to good effect, if one's thoughful about it's use.

I agree, but it has to be used with skill to obtain the desired effect. One of my favour classes was one where the students definitely left having learned something, but not a sound eminated from the teacher's mouth, not even a cough, throughout the entire sixty minutes.

They are techniques which a teacher can utilise to his or her advantage. In the hands of a non-teacher more often than not they will be counter-productive.

On that subject, one of the most annoying things when you attend a seminar of any sort, is when the speaker hasn't had the nous to prepare the tools beforehand - people at the back can't read the displays, the microphone doesn't work; the white board markers have run out and there are none spare, and even worse is when the markers are indelible (how many times does that occur?); or the lights reflect off the board so you can't read it; or the handouts aren't prepared in an orderly way; the list is endless. This is BASIC stuff.

and not to forget....people spend 14 minutes of a 15 minute tea break queueing for the tea.

xris

(on the subject of teaching, a question to the world: which of my last 20 words have I just enjoyed using the most and why? Excluding my own name of course)

[SuperDad]

...even worse is when the markers are indelible (how many times does that occur?)

Only once for me But that was enough to make me double check every time now.

(on the subject of teaching, a question to the world: which of my last 20 words have I just enjoyed using the most and why? Excluding my own name of course).

BASIC - because its not rocket science. (Are we getting marked on this?)

Paul.

[Monid]

On that subject, one of the most annoying things when you attend a seminar of any sort, is when the speaker hasn't had the nous to prepare the tools beforehand - people at the back can't read the displays

Ah the joys of powerpoint. I refuse to use it in anything but its most basic capacity, it is just an accident waiting to happen. Also people fall in love with it and do the bells and whistle presentation which just makes it harder to get info across. And it is so hard to get students to not just read their talk straight off the bullet points on the power points. (It is also impossible in my neck of the woods to get them to talk in anything like the Queens english, "what I done next" was a very common sentence during their presentations...)

As I believe lord Acton said:

Power corrupts, and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely

David

[Heg]

(on the subject of teaching, a question to the world: which of my last 20 words have I just enjoyed using the most and why? Excluding my own name of course)

TEA - cos I reckon it's time for a cup

[Paul34]

With this current crisis the concept of education becomes vital. I think Property Talk does a great service to people if they are prepared to spent the time reading many of the threads as it provides unbiased information on what indeed people should be looking for when determing who to follow and why. There is a truck load of information on this site.

[Perry]

And the price is hard-to-beat, too.

[Propoholic]

I think Property Talk does a great service to people if they are prepared to spent the time reading many of the threads as it provides unbiased information on what indeed people should be looking for when determing who to follow and why.

I agree and I think as an industry resource PropertyTalk has the lowest influence from people who are essentially present to create exposure for their own business......spruikers and the like.

The daily feedback from PropertyTalk members is a great Bellweather of the market, other networking forums (ie seminars, associations etc) are often not so transparent and not so open to scrutiny. Even with the Property Investor Associations there is a core element of members who attend for the business networking opportunities. Obtaining transparent market feedback from these people can be difficult while they have got their 'xyz' mortgage broker, real estate agent, property finder or mentors hat on. I have spoken to key industry people at different times that have indicated their caution towards the changing market conditions. Their own investing position may be guarded and with an intention to be out of the market for the next couple of years (as an example). However, get a potential client in front of them and the sales line becomes 'anytime is a good time to buy'. What a load of rubbish, what they practice for their own investing is very different to what they preach to clients or potential clients.

I have always found that forum discussion on PropertyTalk provides for a very accurate weather report of the industry. As Summer came to an end recently, the 'take action and bank the results brigade' also disappeared. quickly.

[Paul34]

I think a key critera for an educator in this field is that they can't be both educating and selling property. This is a conflict of interest that leds to manipulative behaviour and I think any form of emotive selling beyond education should be a clear sign that something is not right. The facilitation of property selling in any form and education should not mix.

[Paul34]

WARNING SIGNS TO WATCH OUT FOR:

I wish I could take credit for this but this post was written by Weasal Driver in response to another thread. There are so many gems in here for people to watch for it is perhaps all one needs to read to spot real education from just spruking. Enjoy:

"This is the classic guru stuff.....promise untold riches, fire and brimstone and a path to the promised land. The disciples and the desperate will show up. "Free" always helps.

Get them in a room and manage the atmosphere so that you prey upon their weaknesses or most basic needs.

Then parade them past the hard sell and credit card machines and tip them into the next course. Then stay on them like glue till the legally defined credit card recission period expires. This is a very set play.

We have found the problem for the student is that they actually get sold process, not profit. Its the free "dime bag" model designed to hook a kid in the school yard to a life of addiction. The modified "Puppy Dog sale."

The problem with free events for the real estate education promoter is that they lowest common demographic denominator with little ability to buy more than a book or a CD. And possibly that is all they will sell but at least they will be over-priced and profitable.

Real estate investment is about buying the house not the book. A true friend/mentor who knows what they are doing can take a new investor under their wing and help then learn the ins and outs of their first investment in exchange for a few hours worth of work. Maybe even offer a partnership on a couple of deals, but put those hard earned dollars in a property purchase not a leap of faith in some over priced education program that is , potentially plagiarized from a couple of $30 books by real experts".

[tpr2]

Real estate investment is about buying the house not the book. A true friend/mentor who knows what they are doing can take a new investor under their wing and help then learn the ins and outs of their first investment in exchange for a few hours worth of work. Maybe even offer a partnership on a couple of deals, but put those hard earned dollars in a property purchase not a leap of faith in some over priced education program that is , potentially plagiarized from a couple of $30 books by real experts".

hmmmmm strangely enough thats what my mentoring service offers. And its a performance based service, in other words if you don't make money I don't make money.

Also strangely enough perhaps I don't make extravagant enough claims because I'm not run off my feet with it....lol.

[sued]

Yes, I was wondering about Veronica's post too.
I agree with Cube that a good teacher can probably teach anything providing they have some knowledge. Sometimes those who have been around for a long time forget what it was like to be starting out, so I think we need teachers with all ranges of experiences. Eg., I've had a real experienced skier trying to teach me to ski with disasterous results - they were a great skier, but couldn't teach.
As a newbie on PT I am overwhelmed by the advice and knowledge available., and grateful to those who stoop to answer my basic questions. As learners, I guess we can pick and choose our teachers.

[tpr2]

and the reality is PT is probably the best source you will find because the contributors come from all sorts of different backgrounds and experiences.

After 20 years of investing in property, 12 years as a mortgage broker, 9 years as a financial planner and 8 years as a real estate licensee (all of them still current as well) I have learnt many new things here on PT.

It's a shame it wasn't here 20 years ago I might have made way fewer mistakes.