Covid-19 Economic & General Effects for PIs & PMs

[Don't believe the Hype]

Wayne - my question (or shock) goes to more than just people who spend on flashy cars and watches etc... it extends to so called property investors who after a few weeks of the rent not being paid are squeeling about not being able to pay the bills.

If you're a wage earner living pay cheque to pay cheque that is no different to a business owner who can't make rent/payroll because of a one month business interruption or a property investor who can't pay the bills (mortgage/rates/insurance etc) after no rent for a month or so.

[Wayne]

Wayne - my question (or shock) goes to more than just people who spend on flashy cars and watches etc... it extends to so called property investors who after a few weeks of the rent not being paid are squeeling about not being able to pay the bills.

If you're a wage earner living pay cheque to pay cheque that is no different to a business owner who can't make rent/payroll because of a one month business interruption or a property investor who can't pay the bills (mortgage/rates/insurance etc) after no rent for a month or so.

I'm not surprised by the PIs either - they generally expect this to be all about them. They should come through this with no impact.

Not all the wage earners living from payday to payday are using the money on wants (except they want to be able to eat and pay the rent).
There are a lot of people out there earning very little - we have low wages in a lot of areas of the economy (hense the need for 'working for family' tax credits).
You last bit sounds like Dr Deborah Russell

[donna]

someone else should pay they scream...

We send our kids to the most expensive education facilities but even we shouldn't pay!! but when it comes to sending kids back to school and the school has no money to maintain grounds, pay staff etc these same people will scream... we want better service that we're getting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121172283/parents-criticise-private-school-for-charging-same-fees-while-taking-wage-subsidy

what has shocked me through this period is the level of living pay cheque to pay cheque in our society... it's often something we think happens only on low income - it is becoming obvious that it is not just a low income problem

This situation - covid19 - is going to expose the fact that many are living lifestyles they can't afford. The standard of living is going to come crashing down to a level people can sustain. Which is something I've said a number of times across many threads when talking about 'the housing crisis' - it isn't a housing crisis it's an expectation crisis.

We now have a spread of the expectation crisis... instead of putting funds into a rainy day fund people pimped their houses, their cars and their lifestyles to the point that missing one month's pay cheque has resulted in their house of cards coming tumbling down.

The real pain will come with the realisation that you don't deserve the lifestyle you were living and no-one owes you anything.

Yes agreed, and yet nothing changes as we're all encouraged to get out and spend what we don't have.....to keep our hospitality and retail businesses afloat.

What actually amazes me is the obsession with 'takeaways'. A neighbour told me a takeway meal for them is over $100 and it's at least a weekly ritual. They do have in total 7 mouths to feed at the moment as they've got a couple of exchange students. But, takeaways are weekly ritual for a lot of us - also the run on McDonalds etc after leve 4. It's the equivalent of the 'smashed avocado on toast' for a large number of the population. No savings, yet can still afford to visit maccas a few times a week. Also the run on takeaway coffee now we're in level 3 - and many saying they've had to put up with bad coffee - why? They could just get a coffee machine! Is it just me or is this just all wrong!

Maybe we have the too many of the wrong types of business! A lot has to change.

cheers,

Donna

[Don't believe the Hype]

I'm not surprised by the PIs either - they generally expect this to be all about them. They should come through this with no impact.

Not all the wage earners living from payday to payday are using the money on wants (except they want to be able to eat and pay the rent).
There are a lot of people out there earning very little - we have low wages in a lot of areas of the economy (hense the need for 'working for family' tax credits).
You last bit sounds like Dr Deborah Russell

'There are a lot of people out there earning very little' - These aren't the people I'm surprised by it is the ones who earn quite a lot living week to week that do surprise me.

Sounds a bit like Dr Deborah Russell - the problem these days is anyone who doesn't follow the populist line of thinking gets told to pull their heads in!

The reality is many 'business owners' actually don't own a business... they've work for themselves which comes with risks...

Working for yourself and owning a business are not the same thing

[Wayne]

'There are a lot of people out there earning very little' - These aren't the people I'm surprised by it is the ones who earn quite a lot living week to week that do surprise me.

Sounds a bit like Dr Deborah Russell - the problem these days is anyone who doesn't follow the populist line of thinking gets told to pull their heads in!

The reality is many 'business owners' actually don't own a business... they've work for themselves which comes with risks...

Working for yourself and owning a business are not the same thing

The thing about some people who earn a lot is that they spend a lot also.
They think they are richer than they really are so 'deserve' a certain lifestyle.
Those on $30k/yr know they are poor. Those on $200k know they are rich. It's the ones inbetween (say $120k) who think they are rich but in reality are poor.
They lease cars, live in houses too expensive (so high mortgage outgoings) etc.
At the end of the day, no matter what you earn, you are on a losing streak if you spend more than you earn.

I actually agree with the message Deborah was trying (poorly) to get across - we need to do something about helping business' which are a month away from failure. What I don't know (maybe more education/mentoring?).

[flyernzl]

"We have rights!!"

We have the right to live the good life, even if the money we earn won't stretch that far.

It should all be free (code-word for someone else, somewhere else, should pay for it).

If anything goes wrong its somebody else's fault - and they should pay!

Thats the New Zealand way.

[Don't believe the Hype]

"We have rights!!"

We have the right to live the good life, even if the money we earn won't stretch that far.

It should all be free (code-word for someone else, somewhere else, should pay for it).

If anything goes wrong its somebody else's fault - and they should pay!

Thats the New Zealand way.

This is spot on... and goes FULL CIRCLE back to what we've been talking about on other threads about the HOUSING CRISIS being an EXPECTATION CRISIS

This is going to be a tough time for NZ as they are jolted back to a level of quality of life they can afford vs. the one they expect.

[Don't believe the Hype]

The thing about some people who earn a lot is that they spend a lot also.
They think they are richer than they really are so 'deserve' a certain lifestyle.
Those on $30k/yr know they are poor. Those on $200k know they are rich. It's the ones inbetween (say $120k) who think they are rich but in reality are poor.
They lease cars, live in houses too expensive (so high mortgage outgoings) etc.
At the end of the day, no matter what you earn, you are on a losing streak if you spend more than you earn.

I actually agree with the message Deborah was trying (poorly) to get across - we need to do something about helping business' which are a month away from failure. What I don't know (maybe more education/mentoring?).

I think you're right here about the poor and the inbetweeners...

The rich on $200k - many spend $200k plus which is why many of them too live week to week with the inbetweeners.

I have lived in the fast paced corporate world and seen first hand the lifestyle inflation that goes with it. I wasn't sucked in to it but the majority are...

[Perry]

"We have rights!!"
We have the right to live the good life, even if the money we earn won't stretch that far.
It should all be free (code-word for someone else, somewhere else, should pay for it).
If anything goes wrong its somebody else's fault - and they should pay!
That's the New Zealand way

You vile seditious enemy of the people - you.

[Bluecoat]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300002365/parliament-passes-the-wrong-law-in-an-afternoon-of-urgent-lawmaking

Muppets

[Perry]

Force Majeure

Anyone tried for an insurance claim of some sort?

Is force majeure only a claim opt-out for insurance companies.

I.e. Policy-holders can't use force majeure as a premium payment opt-out.

[Perry]

Well, I Never

Coronavirus: Visits by 'street mates' during lockdown sees tenant forced to move out
5 May 2020

An Auckland man has been forced to move out of his central city apartment over visits by his "street mates" during the coronavirus lockdown. Tenancy Tribunal adjudicator J Greene said Sinclair had shown antisocial behaviour towards his landlord and its vulnerable tenants during Covid-19. Greene terminated Sinclair's tenancy, although there would be an impact on him. "Hopefully, given the current situation, he will be housed somewhere more appropriate," Greene said. "But his situation does not outweigh the landlord's right to have the tenancy terminated given the significant antisocial behaviour with its potentially serious consequences that has occurred in this case."

[Perry]

Will Level 1 mean Level 1 for residential LLs?

Does a move to Covid-19 Level 1, that Cabinet is considering tomorrow (Monday, June , mean back-to-normal for 290,000 rental property owners and managers, Tenancies War spokesman Mike Butler asked today.

The Covid-19 Response (Urgent Management) Act, that went through Parliament and was given Royal Assent in a single day, being May 25, 2020, intended to "put in place the necessary arrangements in order to implement COVID-19 Alert Level 4."

Schedule 5 of this Act spells out the Draconian measures which - for three months - froze or changed rental property processes to do with unpaid rent and tenancy terminations. Those include measures that mean:

1. Tenants can stop paying rent for 60 days before any consequences. This is up from 21 days.

2. Owners face a fine of $6500 if they give notice or apply to terminate a tenancy.

3. Existing tenants may stay in a property despite having given notice and without regard to the rights of a new tenant who has signed an agreement to rent the property.

There is an option to extend those anti-LL measures for a further three months, which would be until after the election.

NZ is now in Level 2 and will soon be in Level 1. If the residential rental property provisions of the Act were set up for Level 4, and since we are no longer under the restrictions of Level 4, surely the rental property provisions of the Act are already redundant, Mr Butler said.

These harsh, anti-LL measures appear to have nothing to do with Covid-19 and everything to do with the current Government implementing its amendments to the Residential Tenancies Act without having to get them through Parliament, he said.

This affront to democracy rides roughshod over the rights of New Zealand's rental property owners, many of whom are leaving the sector as a consequence, leaving a critical shortage of residential rental properties

This exodus is happening at a time when the waiting list for a State house has ballooned to 16,309, more than double that of 2017 when the government took office. That would not have happened if the government had actually delivered on its pre-election promise to build 30,000 affordable homes in it's three years in office. It never even got close - not even making it to one thousand, never mind thirty.

Below are news stories about the unintended consequences of the Covid-19 Response (Urgent Management) Act and how some people coped with the authoritarian crackdown on residential rental property.

No data is available on how owners had to sneak around dealing with tenancy issues during the Level 4 lockdown at a time that housing was deemed non-essential and rental property owners were locked down and unable to legally perform basic functions.

Neither is there any data on the extent of additional rent arrears incurred during the Government's Covid-19 panic, or how many owners tried to defuse anti-social behaviour knowing that authorities would only deal with an extreme consequence, such as the boarding house murder (See below).

Tomorrow, (Monday 8 June), Cabinet should tell New Zealand's 290,000 rental property owners and managers that the rules that apply to rental property will be those of the Residential Tenancies Act instead of the provisions in the now redundant Schedule 5 of the Covid-19 Response (Urgent Management) Act, Mr Butler said.

If New Zealand is safe enough to return to Level 1, it goes without saying that should be no extension of the anti-LL, pro-tenant freeze on rental property due processes until after the September 25 election. That would be a further three months of locking-down to level 4 one section of the NZ economy, while all other businesses would be at level 1.

There can be no valid cause for such discrimination.

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Some unintended consequences of the freeze on residential rental processes:

Man charged with murder after person dies at boarding house

Rental freeze hits 'Mum and Dad' LLs hard

How some coped during the freeze:

Rent arrears end tenancies but owner had to accept 60 days' arrears

Anti-social tenants on last warning after Level 4 lockdown breaches

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Stop the War on Tenancies is a group that since October 2018 has been highlighting the failures of successive governments while creating rental property policy and law.

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Contact:
Mike Butler 27-277 7295
[email protected]

[PC]

Ha, Ha, Ha.
Of course not.
That would not be kind to the tenants.
Small NZ Businesses and the rule of law can just go get st###ed as usual.

[donna]

2 new COVID cases today. This should be the only warning we need so we now focus on doing the testing for 'everyone' coming in when the borders are opened.

So of the two travelling here from the UK for a family funeral - one woman had mild symptoms but no test was done (why not?) and no quarantine just managed isolation - which again was a fail as the daily health check wasn't done properly. So off she goes with COVID from AKL to WGN by car with her sister. They say they didn't stop. Not to go loo, or get fuel or eat! So they only came into contact with one person.

NZ needs to learn from this episode before it's too late and we're back in lockdown and screwing with everyone's livelihood.

cheers,

Donna